View Full Version : Phlebotomies due to TRT causing Low Iron
As a result of doing TRT, I have found that I need to donate blood on a regular basis every 8 weeks at the red cross because of elevated hemoglobin and hematocrit (still within the normal range, but towards the upper boundary). These blood donations deplete my iron (I do ferritin labs).
Taking an iron supplement will cause hemoglobin and hematocrit to increase. TRT itself, in my case, causes hemoglobin and hematocrit to increase.
How does one replenish iron without taking too much and causing an undesireable and premature increase in hemoglobin and hematocrit?
griffinannie
12-12-2007, 03:23 AM
Great question.
first off, how do you know it depletes your iron?
we do store sufficient amounts of iron in the liver and spleen
and it is available through many dark leafy veggies.
if you just want a small amount, buy some 'ladies' multi-vitamins
because they do contain iron ... you could take them in place
of the iron supplements and save those for post-blood donation.
check the reply i made to pmgamers thread on Iron ... there is
a link to an article worth reading on iron.
first off, how do you know it depletes your iron?
Low ferritin.
if you just want a small amount, buy some 'ladies' multi-vitamins
because they do contain iron ... you could take them in place
of the iron supplements and save those for post-blood donation.
How does one know what the appropriate dosage of iron should be. In multi-vitamins it is normally 18mg per day. Is this sufficient to replenish iron by the time the next phlebotomy is due? Will taking Ferrous sulfate 325mg providing 65mg of elemental iron be too much?
What is the correct dosage of iron and for what period of time, bearing in mind that TRT will also elevate hemoglobin and hematocrit? You don't want to go getting yourself into trouble by taking the wrong dosage. This is something that should concern anyone on TRT.
hardasnails1973
12-12-2007, 02:42 PM
liver cleansing herbs as milk thistle can lower ferritin as well so be careful
kanecore
12-12-2007, 03:56 PM
But can Milk Thistle lower iron significantly when taken at the recommended dose (175mg 2XD)? Will it also lower hemoglobin and hemocrit?
pmgamer18
12-12-2007, 04:17 PM
1CC I have been on Cortef doing 25mgs a day and 4 grains of Armour. Still not getting any where much better but not enough. The women at STTM kept after me to test my Ferritin and my Dr. kept telling me he sees not problem with this men don't have this problem. Well he broke down and tested my Ferritin the low end of the test is 20 I was at 18. I have been short of breath for as long as I can remember and suffering fatigue.
I started on this for the low lron. Ferrous Fumarate 324 mg - 106 mg Elemental Iron I was told to take 2 pill a day one in the morning after eating and one at dinner. It's been 7 weeks now and my breathing is much better I am back in the gym working out again. I am getting 212 mgs of Elemental Iron a day and the women at STTM said this is good some of them needed to do more a day to get there Iron up. I just tested last week and was told to stop taking the iron for 4 days before the test.
The women say it can take 6 to 9 months for your levels to come back up this is a long process. Still you need to do blood work every 8 weeks to keep track of it doing the tests in this link to my post about this.
So I did a lot of different tests for my Iron on this second test.
http://74.54.133.233/forum/showthread.php?t=23
As a result of doing TRT, I have found that I need to donate blood on a regular basis every 8 weeks at the red cross because of elevated hemoglobin and hematocrit (still within the normal range, but towards the upper boundary). These blood donations deplete my iron (I do ferritin labs).
Taking an iron supplement will cause hemoglobin and hematocrit to increase. TRT itself, in my case, causes hemoglobin and hematocrit to increase.
How does one replenish iron without taking too much and causing an undesireable and premature increase in hemoglobin and hematocrit?
How does one know what the appropriate dosage of iron should be. In multi-vitamins it is normally 18mg per day. Is this sufficient to replenish iron by the time the next phlebotomy is due? Will taking Ferrous sulfate 325mg providing 65mg of elemental iron be too much?
What is the correct dosage of iron and for what period of time, bearing in mind that TRT will also elevate hemoglobin and hematocrit? You don't want to go getting yourself into trouble by taking the wrong dosage. This is something that should concern anyone on TRT.
This is just my perspective so take it for what it is worth:
but I would suggest you investigate homeopathic doses for essential
elements ... the logic behind it is simple, our 'body' cannot absorb
huge amounts in one sitting and it triggers a 'purge' which often not
only dumps the exogenous element (what you ingested) but the
endogenous (stored amount) as well.
homeopathic doses are diluted by 1,000's or more and while it is a
miniscule amount, it is readily absorbed by the body and utilized
right away without triggering a 'dump' -- as you may be aware,
many 'mega' doses are excreted with almost zero absorption for
the very fact that too much of any substance is introduced at one time.
the other good thing about homeopathic doses is they can be taken
every couple hours and this keeps levels much more stable.
I would be very cautious about taking large doses of iron ...
but it is your choice.
pmgamer18
12-12-2007, 08:07 PM
A link I just found.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4545_absorb-iron-supplements.html
Well he broke down and tested my Ferritin the low end of the test is 20 I was at 18. I have been short of breath for as long as I can remember and suffering fatigue.
I started on this for the low lron. Ferrous Fumarate 324 mg - 106 mg Elemental Iron I was told to take 2 pill a day one in the morning after eating and one at dinner. It's been 7 weeks now and my breathing is much better I am back in the gym working out again. I am getting 212 mgs of Elemental Iron a day
Phil,
That's quite a lot of iron you are taking there. My ferritin numbers were similar to yours once, and it didn't take that much iron to get my ferritin up. You need to get your ferritin up to around 50 and not more than 100. It would be best that you test your ferritin and CBC soon and see where you are. Getting iron too high, and possibly hemoglobin and hematocrit as well, will not be a good idea, and reversing it will be difficult.
Do you have the results of your MCHC off of a CBC before starting iron supplementation? This value will usually be low if you are low on iron.
Dr. John Crisler
12-12-2007, 09:07 PM
This is just my perspective so take it for what it is worth:
but I would suggest you investigate homeopathic doses for essential
elements ... the logic behind it is simple, our 'body' cannot absorb
huge amounts in one sitting and it triggers a 'purge' which often not
only dumps the exogenous element (what you ingested) but the
endogenous (stored amount) as well.
homeopathic doses are diluted by 1,000's or more and while it is a
miniscule amount, it is readily absorbed by the body and utilized
right away without triggering a 'dump' -- as you may be aware,
many 'mega' doses are excreted with almost zero absorption for
the very fact that too much of any substance is introduced at one time.
the other good thing about homeopathic doses is they can be taken
every couple hours and this keeps levels much more stable.
I would be very cautious about taking large doses of iron ...
but it is your choice.
Do you have any studies to show regarding this idea?
Dr. John Crisler
12-12-2007, 09:16 PM
Gentlemen who need to visit the Red Cross on a regular basis secondary to TRT-induced erythrocytosis should return to a multivitamin/mineral which contains iron. Anemia is not present (as evidenced by appropriate H/H and lack of microcytosis) in these cases, and frank iron supplementation is not needed. You also have to take into consideration whether you use iron skillets, red meat consumption, etc. The body has an amazing ability to take what it needs from oral intake.
Do you have any studies to show regarding this idea?
nope ... that's why I said "take it for what its worth"
there is lots of 'anecdotal' evidence taking trace amounts
works better than massive amounts, but no medical studies.
intuitively, it makes sense that taking a supplement that
equals a cup of veggies, such as spinach for iron, makes
more sense than swallowing the equivalent of pounds of
spinach or even a tire iron!
or taking supplements, like testosterone, that closely matches
what the body produces and/or stores instead of blasting into
areas where it does more harm than good.
if I do find any medical studies I will post them!
:)
Gentlemen who need to visit the Red Cross on a regular basis secondary to TRT-induced erythrocytosis should return to a multivitamin/mineral which contains iron. Anemia is not present (as evidenced by appropriate H/H and lack of microcytosis) in these cases, and frank iron supplementation is not needed. You also have to take into consideration whether you use iron skillets, red meat consumption, etc. The body has an amazing ability to take what it needs from oral intake.
Thanks Dr. John.
pmgamer18
12-13-2007, 11:07 AM
From what I have been reading we need Ferritin between 70 to 90. Here is a cut and past a lot of men and women posted following this and it still took a long time to get there levels back up.
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How much iron supplementation do I need, and how long do I take it? When Ferritin is low, you have to give yourself many weeks, into months, to improve the levels..taking up to 200 mg. of ELEMENTAL IRON daily, with meals. BE SURE AND READ THE LABEL TO SEE HOW MUCH ELEMENTAL IRON IS IN EACH TABLET. The general goal is to get your Ferritin to a minimum of 70-90, according to our own research. And you may have to stay on iron to maintain those levels.
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I have been on it for 5 weeks and did blood work last Wed. Having the following checked a full fasting iron panel, serum iron, serum ferritin, TIBC (total iron binding capacity), and Transferrin saturation (Tsat%), it's a standard test to run all of those together and your Tsat %is calculated for you.