Recipies for Muscle Gains on TRT?

[ptm82379]

What would one need to do to put on 15 or so lbs of muscle while on TRT.

What supplements would you guys recommend?

I currently take a No2 supp and a creatine supp. and some protein (infrequent)

I was thinking of adding L-glutamine and a good Multi.

What do you guys take in addition to T for good gains (nothing illegal or even close)

Ive been consistant for a little while now and im toning up but not really moving up in weight or seeing more muscle. More of just toning what is already there. I am on a calorie deficit though so that isnt helping but it is getting rid of some fat.

Sorry it would be a shame not to ask this, come on we are in the muscle chatroom.

[00slotiv]

What would one need to do to put on 15 or so lbs of muscle while on TRT.

What supplements would you guys recommend?

I currently take a No2 supp and a creatine supp. and some protein (infrequent)

I was thinking of adding L-glutamine and a good Multi.

What do you guys take in addition to T for good gains (nothing illegal or even close)

Ive been consistant for a little while now and im toning up but not really moving up in weight or seeing more muscle. More of just toning what is already there. I am on a calorie deficit though so that isnt helping but it is getting rid of some fat.

Sorry it would be a shame not to ask this, come on we are in the muscle chatroom.

The protein is good and working out very seriously and getting plenty of rest for those muscles.

The calorie deficit is a no no as you allude.

Are you using prescribed T? More protein and calories, hard work and rest should do it.

From my experience, I weighed 197 before TRT and after nine months of working hard in the weight room weighed 197 but clearly more muscle and clearly less fat. Different body.

You could put on muscle but not verify it on the scale so your eyes will be the best judge.

Without the T I think the prevailing thought is it is for all intents and purposes impossible to gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. Have to cut cals to cut fat, but lose muscle, have to add cals to add muscle, but add fat.

One would have to concentrate on accomplishing one or the other at a time.

I am not an expert but rest can't be stressed enough.

Bob

[ptm82379]

Yeah its prescribed 200mg week test cyp. I agree with you i have been slowly increasing the cals.

I have been pretty intense usually 1hour per day 5 days per week

Well i say intense for me but not some of you guys. I have been dedicated though and that in itself has surprised me.

I have seen some body changes like when I flex my abs now my fat moves with them. Still fat but there is something under it. My arms Refuse to grow. I dont think Ill ever have nice biceps but im sure as hell trying

[00slotiv]

Yeah its prescribed 200mg week test cyp. I agree with you i have been slowly increasing the cals.

I have been pretty intense usually 1hour per day 5 days per week

Well i say intense for me but not some of you guys. I have been dedicated though and that in itself has surprised me.

I have seen some body changes like when I flex my abs now my fat moves with them. Still fat but there is something under it. My arms Refuse to grow. I dont think Ill ever have nice biceps but im sure as hell trying

PTM,

With that much test per week building muscle should be a forgone conclusion as far as I know, if you exhaust yourself 1 hour per day 5 days per week.

Likely you wouldn't need to push yourself that many days or else you could get bored and lose lose intensity going too often.

I made the mistake last year of using too much weight on a shoulder machine and tore the rotator cuff and labrum on both shoulders, recovering from one surgery and deciding soon on operating on the other one ASAP.

Push yourself but try to use good form and forget about showing off, even if you can. The more weight you try to haul or shove instead of controling, the less good you are going to do and the more likely to get injured.

Assuming you need the testosterone for life, eating well, lifting diligently and smartly, and sleeping 8 hours a day should give you a body you are happy with and good health.

Just be sure to get all the tests you need on the TRT.

Bob

[00slotiv]

Yeah its prescribed 200mg week test cyp. I agree with you i have been slowly increasing the cals.

I have been pretty intense usually 1hour per day 5 days per week

Well i say intense for me but not some of you guys. I have been dedicated though and that in itself has surprised me.

I have seen some body changes like when I flex my abs now my fat moves with them. Still fat but there is something under it. My arms Refuse to grow. I dont think Ill ever have nice biceps but im sure as hell trying

Remember your shoulder excercises and triceps. I read recently that women are more impressed with nice shoulders than biceps. Cables and dumbells for shoulders are a must.

Bob

[LowT]

1 hour per day 5 days per week is way more than optimal.

Natural testosterone levels tend to peak around 30-45 minutes after initiation of intense weight lifting. Beyond that does more harm than good.

In addition, 5 days per week is also too much. When building muscle you need time to heal. 2-3 days per week is much better. Make sure and work your whole body at each workout session but switch muscle groups.

[JackBauer]

Buy New Rules of Lifting.

A must have.

(Ok I'm personally not yet sold on it, only started using it's break-in program 2 weeks ago, but the reviews are extraordinarily high. However - just a warning, the damn thing has a guy with a picture of a dumbbell on the cover... To me I was thinking it would support home WO's... Unfortunately the book is all about lifting in a gym, NOT at home. I'm gonna make do with the home work out, I just won't be doing squats with an olympic bar on my traps. I realize I am losing by not taking advantage of a real gym, a squat rack, etc... But I would much prefer to WO at home and will live with the limitations.)

[ptm82379]

Yeah I try to hit each muscle group, shoulders have their own day, chest has its own day, arms have one, legs have one and back has one.

I am really concentrating on my form. I have found that especially on shrugs i tend to pull muscles very easily if I dont pay attention to my form.

I use alot of machines and cables. Dumbells are the curl bar and flat bar are used less often.

This is more of a personal quest than anything. I never got to look muscular in high school and college because my pituitary robbed me of that. Now I have the means and ability and ill be honest I would love to be big. I guess Im just being a bit impatient this is only my second week on this dosage so I am still getting used to it. This is pretty the beginning of my lifelong injections so I dont really know what to expect at the gym.

[00slotiv]

Yeah I try to hit each muscle group, shoulders have their own day, chest has its own day, arms have one, legs have one and back has one.

I am really concentrating on my form. I have found that especially on shrugs i tend to pull muscles very easily if I dont pay attention to my form.

I use alot of machines and cables. Dumbells are the curl bar and flat bar are used less often.

This is more of a personal quest than anything. I never got to look muscular in high school and college because my pituitary robbed me of that. Now I have the means and ability and ill be honest I would love to be big. I guess Im just being a bit impatient this is only my second week on this dosage so I am still getting used to it. This is pretty the beginning of my lifelong injections so I dont really know what to expect at the gym.

PTM,

Don't fall in love with 200 mg per week just yet. I'm not saying you will but...

1. It is too early to know how you will feel on it. For some there is some anxiety if T gets to a certain level.

2. Some physical symptoms might develop like ED or your DHT could be too high or your E2 could get too high. Lowering it with more Anastrozole would raise your free T even higher. Sleep maybe could be disrupted.

3. Over the years, it seems to me it would be difficult to "transfer over" a prescription dose that high, unless T levels are not out of sight. It'd be easier to have someone else prescribe 100-150 mg per week if for some reason you need to get a prescription from someone else some day.

That dose is great for what you want to accomplish and it would be easy to get spoiled by it. Don't ordinarily need that much though for enough T to build muscle.

It would be interesting if you posted your first testosterone level after another several weeks and at what point during the week the sample was drawn.

Don't want to be negative, only make a few comments.

Good luck with transforming your body. If you work hard you should be happy with the results.

Bob

[ptm82379]

Thanks Bob,

I was having some anxiety yesterday but it has since gone.
My doc will be adding HCG to the mix in a few weeks so ill have a retest then.

As for being off test my baseline runs between 190 and 220 I will post my next levels in this thread when I get them in and again when HCG is added

I think 200 was used to see how I respond so he may very well back it off.

I would still like to add some vitamins or other supps as I am sure my body need it. I have been out of shape for quite some time.

[00slotiv]

Thanks Bob,

I was having some anxiety yesterday but it has since gone.
My doc will be adding HCG to the mix in a few weeks so ill have a retest then.

As for being off test my baseline runs between 190 and 220 I will post my next levels in this thread when I get them in and again when HCG is added

I think 200 was used to see how I respond so he may very well back it off.

I would still like to add some vitamins or other supps as I am sure my body need it. I have been out of shape for quite some time.

Best of luck PTM, I just hope to see you have a regimen you can go with for a long long time. The testing and adjusting can be wearisome but is necessary for you to be your best and have confidence in the therapy you will be on for the rest of your life.

TRT can be just as good for our emotional/mental health as our body comp so it is great you are able to use it.

Bob

[gman]

PTM, look up Bill Starr.

A 5x5 strength program emphasizing deadlifts, squats, bench press, and bentover rows will put some mass on quick. Save the curls, lateral raises, etc for later, just pound the compound movements for now, and eat plenty.

[ptm82379]

Yeah im starting to eat more but healthier for sure

[Hou-ou]

Old school body part split is just that, old. You should try a full-body routine or a push/pull split.

I am fond of "Men's Health Power Training". It gives a ton of different excercises to choose from and has several variations of the workout plan. I just finished my second 12 week session doing full body 2-3x/week and my size and strength gains are noticable.

I tried 5x5 for a little while but ended up going too heavy too fast and strained a hamstring pretty bad.

Ditch the NO, it is basically a hype product. Stick with protein, creatine, proper diet and rest.

Check out t-nation for more ideas.

[ptm82379]

Cool I will do so. I think the creatine is messin with my blood sugar. i stopprd it for today just to see and i feel much better

[keith1958]

I am a firm believer in constantly changing your workouts up. I too train 5 days a week 90 minutes each workout. I also take 1 weeks off to rest up every 2 months. I am presently training 1 week heavy, 1 week light, 1 week dumbbells only, and 1 week Super sets. I plan on doing this all summer. I also follow a very strict diet 6 days a week and have 1 cheat day. I never plan on competing just enjoy doing it. I went years with low hormones and probably enjoy the fact I can do this now. Making up for lost time I guess. I think learning what works for you is important since we are all different. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress

[ssavan01]

PTM, look up Bill Starr.

A 5x5 strength program emphasizing deadlifts, squats, bench press, and bentover rows will put some mass on quick. Save the curls, lateral raises, etc for later, just pound the compound movements for now, and eat plenty.



Best advice thus far on this thread. Most people are so dead wrong about beginners weight lifting routines. Also wrong about what consistuets a beginner. Ive been weight lifting for 5 years 3 days per week, Id say I just became intermediate a year ago. I practiced routines that I read about on the internet and ins mens health with ok results (any weight lifting will eventually yeild results), but I wasnt maximizing muscle gains until I found programs such as Rippetoe and 5x5 routines.

Read this sticky from bodybuilding.com it is very accurate and will definitely point you in the right direction.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=115643271

[BigJimcalhoun]

For me, crossfit meets my goals more than anything else.


I would rather do a mix of

rowing
short-distance running
sprinting
pull-ups
push-ups
dips
traditional situps
GHD situps
bodyweight squats
front squat
back squat
snatch
clean and jerk
dead lift
military press
push press
sandbag work
tire flips
gymnastic rings
plyometrics
burpees
etc
...then be staring at a mirror at myself as I do some curl.
Though strength is important, it is not the only parameter I want to improve. I want to improve work, power, endurance, stamina, flexibility, etc. I want all-around fitness, not just fitness in one area. If you look at marathon runners, yes they can run far, but have no strength. If you look at power lifters, yes they are strong but can't run.

See mthAthlete.com or crossfit.com

[biceps72]

old school but it works

body part/day

monday = chest
tuesday = back
wed = legs
thur- arms
fri= shoulders
weekends off

change exercises every 2 weeks

lift heavy once/month
llift ight/high reps once/month

4-5 exercises per body part

mostly stay in 8-12 reps range

eat clean but EAT AND EAT REAL FOOD. protein shakes, protein bars are supplements for protein intake.

stables = egg whites, some whole eggs, milk, tuna, chicken, turkey, beef, rice, sweet potatoes, yogurt, cottage cheese, greens, plus fiber sources!

there are a lot of roads "home"-- this is an old route but a proven one for me and a lot of people.

good luck whatever you try; ain't no substitute for hard work and good eating.

[Randall64]

For me, it's very old-school. Same as I've done for 25 years.

Day One: Chest, Triceps
Day Two: Back, Biceps
Day Three: Legs Shoulders
Day Four: Rest

Everyday (almost): Abs


The excercises get switched up, but not the workouts.

[ptm82379]

All looks like solid info guys thanks. Idid move up on chest yesterday so that is always a motivator. I was repping this week what i could only get up a few times last week. It feels good.

[gman]

crossfit is a sure way to get lean, but if you want to add muscle mass, it is not going to work. I know several people, one a college tight end, who did crossfit. They all look great, but lost a lot of muscle along with their fat. The TE is in his late 20's, went from 6'4" 250, down to the 180-195 range doing cross fit.

Again, it depends on what you want, but I think the OP wants to get bigger! Crossfit is awesome and I would throwup if I tried it.

[JanSz]

crossfit is a sure way to get lean, but if you want to add muscle mass, it is not going to work. I know several people, one a college tight end, who did crossfit. They all look great, but lost a lot of muscle along with their fat. The TE is in his late 20's, went from 6'4" 250, down to the 180-195 range doing cross fit.

Again, it depends on what you want, but I think the OP wants to get bigger! Crossfit is awesome and I would throwup if I tried it.

And I thought that longevity is of primary concern.

.

[BigJimcalhoun]

Me, I want to put on some muscle, but I do not want to get big. Some might and that is their choice, we still live in a free country, (not sure for how long).

In an ideal world I would weight 180lb. I would also be able to meet the crossfit level 3 or 4 standards which include being able to deadlift twice my body weight, bench 1-1/2 times my bw, military press my bw + be able to do well in all the other areas such as 42 pull-ups non-stop, run mile under 6 min (consider my age here). I can post the standards in a separate thread if anyone is interested.

You can get stronger doing crossfit, but you will never be a bodybuilder doing it as that is not what it is about.

[gman]

And I thought that longevity is of primary concern.

.

No. OP said he wanted help putting on 15lbs of muscle.

I would rather be 225lbs and lots of muscle and enjoy life, than live longer as a skinny guy.

[JanSz]

No. OP said he wanted help putting on 15lbs of muscle.

I would rather be 225lbs and lots of muscle and enjoy life, than live longer as a skinny guy.

Sorry,
this clarifies my view of you.
If that is your goal, I wish you luck.

I must have been mixing you with another fellow who had quite few premature deaths in his family, and was complaining about inability to lose weight (fat).

.
.

[gman]

Sorry,
this clarifies my view of you.
If that is your goal, I wish you luck.

I must have been mixing you with another fellow who had quite few premature deaths in his family, and was complaining about inability to lose weight (fat).

.
.

Just one premature death, but it was my dad.

I do have an inability to lose fat. I don't necessarily want to lose weight, just fat!

I would like to be 200+ at 10% bf, but that is not too realistic at 47. I would take 180 and 10% if I had too! lol

I really was addressing the OP though, he wants to gain 15lbs of muscle. That is not going to happen if he does crossfit.

[BigJimcalhoun]

For those of you not familiar with crossfit, here are some videos. I still say one can put on muscle doing it - not as much as solely focusing on hypertrophy though. Check out the guys in the video. That is enough muscle for me. :)


YouTube - Crossfit Games 2008. Jason Khalipa is the top winner of the the Competition
and
YouTube - CrossFit Muscle Up x 30
(I would be curious if anyone on this forum can do one of these)

Videos of women in crossfit
YouTube - 13 minutes workout

[Teegunn]

There are some mis-conceptions about being "skinny" sometimes. Personally, a lean, but ripped and reasonably muscular physique is what I strive for. Big weight lifting muscles just don't look as good IMHO. As a former div 1 college football player, I was pushed to get big, big, big. It slowed me down. I convinced one of the assistant strength and conditioning coaches to let me do a modified routine, which allowed me to stay strong (at that time I set the strength index record for my school at my position) while allowing me to stay lean and have USABLE muscle. Just getting big doesn't cut the mustard IMHO. At least not for me.

[ssavan01]

I agree. Just getting big is not as eye pleasing and health inducing as getting fit,ripped and healthy. Im 6'2 and went from 160 to 240lbs. I was getting incredibly large and people would constantly refer to me as a meathead, give me steroid critisisms and so on... I stopped lifting weights for quite a while, got sick of what came with it. Plus I didnt feel healthy.

Now, Im 195lbs, still have the build that I built when I was 240 but not nearly as much muscle. I am rebuilding, only this time with high intensity cardio 2 days per week. I would say i am 85% ectomorphic, 15% mesomorphic. I am doing weight training 3 times per week (45 min training, with 10 min treadmill warmup and 5 minute treadmill walking cool down). I am also eating much differently this time around. I am concentrating on improving my bodys acid/alkaline balance instead of just loading up on meat and other protein. I take a green drink twice a day, and eat 6 small meals per day. I try to have a salad with two of the meals and I am focusing on proper food combining (ie grilled chicken breast with spinach salad, instead on grilled chicken and rice). That is a acid/alkaline balanced meal, chicken breast and rice is all acid, sits in the system. I feel soo much better on this regimen, its night and day.

As far as supplements for weight training I use Kre-Alkalyn creatine, arginine, CLA, citrulline malate, Optimum Nutrition Natural Whey Protein (1 shake in morning, another after workout) Optimum Nutrition Natural Casein Protein Shake (1 before bed).

Thats my basic regimen to give you an idea. I dont know of your body type, but if your more ectomorphic like me, this type of routine is healthy and puts on lean mass, not just mass.

[Teegunn]

That sounds real similar to what I strive for, ssavan01. At almost 40, I am in close to the best overall shape of my life. Often mistaken for 29 instead of 39. I have also changed my diet and while I strive for high protein, lower carb, low fat, I also use a concentrated greens mix and eat a LOT more greens than I used to. Also eat a lot fewer cals overall. My workout routine is more along the lines of higher reps, a bit lower weight. I sit around 8% BF with veins visible in my shoulders even when not pumped. So I am pretty happy with where I am at physically, but still want to get even leaner if possible. This doesn't mean that physically I can do all the same things as I could in college or even in my prime about 10 years ago, but overall my lifestyle change has been very positive and something I see myself sticking with longterm. I've been pretty "big" before, but much prefer how I look now. And from the feedback I get from women, they strongly agree.

[timawa]

When our bodies can no longer find alternative means to neutralize acid (http://www.acidalkalinediet.com/), a condition known as acidosis occurs. Dangerous levels of acid infiltrate our tissues and remain stuck there, where it can no longer be neutralized. As a result, our levels of acidity are greatly increased. Acidosis is thought to be responsible for nearly all fatal diseases, as it is essentially the one thing that all diseases have in common with each other. This is why many doctors believe that an Alkaline Diet is essential to good health. If we are able to maintain proper amounts of alkaline by carefully selecting the foods we eat, we will maintain a healthy alkaline pH balance, thus avoiding acidosis.

[cpeil2]

Thanks Bob,

I was having some anxiety yesterday but it has since gone.
My doc will be adding HCG to the mix in a few weeks so ill have a retest then.

As for being off test my baseline runs between 190 and 220 I will post my next levels in this thread when I get them in and again when HCG is added

I think 200 was used to see how I respond so he may very well back it off.

I would still like to add some vitamins or other supps as I am sure my body need it. I have been out of shape for quite some time.


You don't say how big you are. Some big guys need a weekly dose in the 200 mg. range. But most do fine on a considerably lower dose.

[cpeil2]

Me, I want to put on some muscle, but I do not want to get big. Some might and that is their choice, we still live in a free country, (not sure for how long).

In an ideal world I would weight 180lb. I would also be able to meet the crossfit level 3 or 4 standards which include being able to deadlift twice my body weight, bench 1-1/2 times my bw, military press my bw + be able to do well in all the other areas such as 42 pull-ups non-stop, run mile under 6 min (consider my age here). I can post the standards in a separate thread if anyone is interested.

You can get stronger doing crossfit, but you will never be a bodybuilder doing it as that is not what it is about.



Are those single-rep max's?

[RickWalia]

Me, I want to put on some muscle, but I do not want to get big. Some might and that is their choice, we still live in a free country, (not sure for how long).

In an ideal world I would weight 180lb. I would also be able to meet the crossfit level 3 or 4 standards which include being able to deadlift twice my body weight, bench 1-1/2 times my bw, military press my bw + be able to do well in all the other areas such as 42 pull-ups non-stop, run mile under 6 min (consider my age here). I can post the standards in a separate thread if anyone is interested.

You can get stronger doing crossfit, but you will never be a bodybuilder doing it as that is not what it is about.



I started working out today. LOL im really out of shape 263lb 6'2 and i tried to bench im starting out at 55 lbs D:. Hopefully once i lose a decent amount of weight i can start doing push ups which im looking really forward to. Thanks for the links really helpful. Eating better too. :biggrin:

[ptm82379]

You don't say how big you are. Some big guys need a weekly dose in the 200 mg. range. But most do fine on a considerably lower dose.

6'3" 190 lbs

[Krus8r]

What would one need to do to put on 15 or so lbs of muscle while on TRT.

What supplements would you guys recommend?

I currently take a No2 supp and a creatine supp. and some protein (infrequent)

I was thinking of adding L-glutamine and a good Multi.

What do you guys take in addition to T for good gains (nothing illegal or even close)

Ive been consistant for a little while now and im toning up but not really moving up in weight or seeing more muscle. More of just toning what is already there. I am on a calorie deficit though so that isnt helping but it is getting rid of some fat.

Sorry it would be a shame not to ask this, come on we are in the muscle chatroom.

I see you have gotten a lot of responses with several different strategies. You don't say how old you are but I assume over 40 given the TRT. I wanted to share since I attribute my ability to put on more than 15 lbs of lean body mass so far this year directly to HRT and some good advice from some very knowledgeable people. And, yes, you can definitely lose fat while gaining muscle over time.

The key tenets are:

1.) Diet (or rather eating lifestyle) - this as you can imagine is one of the most important focus areas. You must keep insulin levels down except for key timings right after exercise if you hope to release fat for energy. A diet like the Zone works well for this. Additionally, you want to remember that fats and high glycemic foods blunt growth hormone output as does alcohol. This can be critical prior to a workout and especially at bedtime. You don't want to eat fats or high glycemic carbs and then go to bed.

But, you mention that you are eating below maintenance. This will not allow you to gain muscle. On the days that you weight train, you should eat ABOVE maintenance (200 or 300 calories above) to allow for the new muscle growth. On the days that you don't weight train, you can eat as much as 1000 calories (or more - i.e. alternate day fasting) under maintenance to lose fat.

Another critical component is creating a net positive protein synthesis environment. Going into a workout your amino acid pools should be full. Immediately after the workout you need to replenish the pools with a good BCAA, low/no carb protein powder. Leucine is a KEY amino for the aged male in being able to add muscle. Also, if you take in a lot of glucose after working out you will effectively cease the protein synthesis. The longer you can hold off, the better.

Our good friend Dat has written an excellent article about all of the science behind this here:

http://www.synthetek.com/the-science-behind-synthepure-whey-protein-isolate/

Note: I am not recommending any particular product here just posting for the science in the article.

2.) Exercise - there are a lot of ways to exercise. It really depends on how you want to apply your physical exertion. For example, I love Jiu Jitsu. For this I use a combination of supporting exercise types. I use crossfit to build the stamina, flexibility, and functional strength to go several 5 minute rounds. I use traditional weights (dumbells and kettlebells mostly) in a high intensity (think Mike Mentzer), low rep manner applying peak force reps to build size/strength while minimizing what it takes to recover. Typically your growth hormone peaks around the 30 min mark during exercise. Continuing on much longer simply leads to over training in the natural (or TRT level) male.

You don't mention any particular sports so if it is just bodybuilding, simply do high intensity, lower rep, peak force type workouts every other day or so. Train for strength and size will follow. Be sure to eat above maintenance on training days.

3.) Supplements - of course taking the typical vitamins and minerals plus foundational supplements are a must: fish oil, CoQ10, resveratrol, antioxidants, I3C, etc. Additionally, something to support prostate health like Nettleroot, Saw Palmetto, and Pygeum Africanum Extract.

You should end up with a couple large handfuls per day.

You mention Glutamine. That is a key amino used by GH. So, taking it when GH is going to be active (either naturally or exo) is important.

As already mentioned, the most important friend will be your BCAA whey protein powder. Make it frequent vs infrequent.


4.) Replacing hormonal deficiencies - our favorite topic on this forum. For the aged (over 40) male this is THE most important missing ingredient if one is to make progress in size/strength.

Personally, I think it goes way beyond simple test replacement. I think all the typical anti-aging hormones should be tested and deficiencies replaced to high reference range values including: Test, DHEA, pregnenolone, GH, melatonin.

Synthetic GH used in a fashion so as to mimic the male's pulsatile GH output (versus one big dose leading to feminized secretion patterns). Or the use of GHRH/GHRPs, especially pre-bed. Dr. C has a protocol for this I believe. Again, our friend Dat has provided several critical research observations behind using GHRH/GHRPs.

Anyway, that's about all I can think of for one post...

[DragonRider]

In addition, 5 days per week is also too much. When building muscle you need time to heal. 2-3 days per week is much better. Make sure and work your whole body at each workout session but switch muscle groups.

It's true that time to heal is as important as the routine itself, however whole body routines are good for beginners, but will not build significant amounts of muscle in the long haul.

[DragonRider]

With that much test per week building muscle should be a forgone conclusion as far as I know, if you exhaust yourself 1 hour per day 5 days per week.
Bob

That depends on how high 200mg a week actually raises his test levels. Amatuer bodybuilders will shoot for a minimum of 4 times normal levels to begin to see significant (noticeable) muscle growth. We don't even want to discuss how high pro's go.
Relatively speaking, 200mg a week once you remove the ester weight, will approximately double what your body normally produces. However, doubling exogenous test levels doesn't necesarilly correspond to doubling natural levels. In other words, 200mg a week may only take someone into the high normal range.

[Ev_nyc]

It's true that time to heal is as important as the routine itself, however whole body routines are good for beginners, but will not build significant amounts of muscle in the long haul.

Hell ya they can.

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

Then again, not everyone is the same.

But if people follow this to the T......and I mean stay strict to the program, then they will see constant gains!

It's all about progressive load and deconditioning.

Then again, strength gains are not as fast on this routine, but he's concerned more with muscle mass

[GirlyMan]

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

That's worth a go. Especially with throwing in a few heavy negative days like he suggests. I've been doing all "partial rep far heavier than I could possibly do correctly". I'm gonna try this one to see what happens.

[Ev_nyc]

Yeah it's great. If you follow it correctly and don't lift too heavy for the program, then you can get good continuous gains.

If you follow this program and lift a bit heavier, you can get faster gains, and then fast strength gains, but will plateau quickly and then start to overtrain.

Personally right now I'm trying a modified 5x5 routine just for a change.

[GirlyMan]

Personally right now I'm trying a modified 5x5 routine just for a change.

I'm a big believer in changing up programs frequently, even regularly. Don't like finding myself in a rut, mentally or physically. btw, I liked the 5X5 a lot, I'll be doing it again.

[Bulldog]

That's worth a go. Especially with throwing in a few heavy negative days like he suggests. I've been doing all "partial rep far heavier than I could possibly do correctly". I'm gonna try this one to see what happens.

There is tons of great discussion on the HST forum (http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin/ib314/ikonboard.cgi). I highly recommend you check it out.

[Wise Guy]

I see you have gotten a lot of responses with several different strategies. You don't say how old you are but I assume over 40 given the TRT. I wanted to share since I attribute my ability to put on more than 15 lbs of lean body mass so far this year directly to HRT and some good advice from some very knowledgeable people. And, yes, you can definitely lose fat while gaining muscle over time.

The key tenets are:

1.) Diet (or rather eating lifestyle) - this as you can imagine is one of the most important focus areas. You must keep insulin levels down except for key timings right after exercise if you hope to release fat for energy. A diet like the Zone works well for this. Additionally, you want to remember that fats and high glycemic foods blunt growth hormone output as does alcohol. This can be critical prior to a workout and especially at bedtime. You don't want to eat fats or high glycemic carbs and then go to bed.

But, you mention that you are eating below maintenance. This will not allow you to gain muscle. On the days that you weight train, you should eat ABOVE maintenance (200 or 300 calories above) to allow for the new muscle growth. On the days that you don't weight train, you can eat as much as 1000 calories (or more - i.e. alternate day fasting) under maintenance to lose fat.

Another critical component is creating a net positive protein synthesis environment. Going into a workout your amino acid pools should be full. Immediately after the workout you need to replenish the pools with a good BCAA, low/no carb protein powder. Leucine is a KEY amino for the aged male in being able to add muscle. Also, if you take in a lot of glucose after working out you will effectively cease the protein synthesis. The longer you can hold off, the better.

Our good friend Dat has written an excellent article about all of the science behind this here:

http://www.synthetek.com/the-science-behind-synthepure-whey-protein-isolate/

Note: I am not recommending any particular product here just posting for the science in the article.

2.) Exercise - there are a lot of ways to exercise. It really depends on how you want to apply your physical exertion. For example, I love Jiu Jitsu. For this I use a combination of supporting exercise types. I use crossfit to build the stamina, flexibility, and functional strength to go several 5 minute rounds. I use traditional weights (dumbells and kettlebells mostly) in a high intensity (think Mike Mentzer), low rep manner applying peak force reps to build size/strength while minimizing what it takes to recover. Typically your growth hormone peaks around the 30 min mark during exercise. Continuing on much longer simply leads to over training in the natural (or TRT level) male.

You don't mention any particular sports so if it is just bodybuilding, simply do high intensity, lower rep, peak force type workouts every other day or so. Train for strength and size will follow. Be sure to eat above maintenance on training days.

3.) Supplements - of course taking the typical vitamins and minerals plus foundational supplements are a must: fish oil, CoQ10, resveratrol, antioxidants, I3C, etc. Additionally, something to support prostate health like Nettleroot, Saw Palmetto, and Pygeum Africanum Extract.

You should end up with a couple large handfuls per day.

You mention Glutamine. That is a key amino used by GH. So, taking it when GH is going to be active (either naturally or exo) is important.

As already mentioned, the most important friend will be your BCAA whey protein powder. Make it frequent vs infrequent.


4.) Replacing hormonal deficiencies - our favorite topic on this forum. For the aged (over 40) male this is THE most important missing ingredient if one is to make progress in size/strength.

Personally, I think it goes way beyond simple test replacement. I think all the typical anti-aging hormones should be tested and deficiencies replaced to high reference range values including: Test, DHEA, pregnenolone, GH, melatonin.

Synthetic GH used in a fashion so as to mimic the male's pulsatile GH output (versus one big dose leading to feminized secretion patterns). Or the use of GHRH/GHRPs, especially pre-bed. Dr. C has a protocol for this I believe. Again, our friend Dat has provided several critical research observations behind using GHRH/GHRPs.

Anyway, that's about all I can think of for one post...

Nice post. I'm a blue belt in brazilian JJ, I love JJ as well.

All my diet/exercise info comes from t-nation.com

That is the most bad ass site for anything diet/exercise related. Its my bible for things like that.