depression, thyroid

[matttaylor]

When I started TRT , for a month the depression lifted, then returned. Then my doctor started me on ARMOUR a few months ago [ was on synthroid 225mcg for 30 years] , I felt GREAT for 40 days on the ARMOUR [ 2 X 60 MG DAILY] , \then depression returned.
after a few months on the armour and blood tests
T 4 , free was .7 on a .8-1.8 ng/dl scale
tsh 3rd generation 5.75 on a .40-4.50 miu/l scale

so we added 100 mcg of synthroid to the ARMOUR
blood test are
t 4 1.32 .61- 1.76 scale
tsh .416 .450-4.5o scale

Currently on TRT, T shots and hcg as per doctor and as other on this forum, number are ok, E is high though.

wONDERING IF i SHOULD DITCH THE synthroid and add more ARMOUR,?
any thoughts?

did ther rhien lab test, should some low cortisol and some vitamin deficiencys, but nothing to terribly wrong. Just trying to rule out hormone issue in my battle against depression.
I am seeing a pdoc, on Lexapro, no help.
Iknow this is wrong, but considering HGH to see if I can get relief from depression there.

[JanSz]

When I started TRT , for a month the depression lifted, then returned. Then my doctor started me on ARMOUR a few months ago [ was on synthroid 225mcg for 30 years] , I felt GREAT for 40 days on the ARMOUR [ 2 X 60 MG DAILY] , \then depression returned.
after a few months on the armour and blood tests
T 4 , free was .7 on a .8-1.8 ng/dl scale
tsh 3rd generation 5.75 on a .40-4.50 miu/l scale

so we added 100 mcg of synthroid to the ARMOUR
blood test are
t 4 1.32 .61- 1.76 scale
tsh .416 .450-4.5o scale

Currently on TRT, T shots and hcg as per doctor and as other on this forum, number are ok, E is high though.

wONDERING IF i SHOULD DITCH THE synthroid and add more ARMOUR,?
any thoughts?

did ther rhien lab test, should some low cortisol and some vitamin deficiencys, but nothing to terribly wrong. Just trying to rule out hormone issue in my battle against depression.
I am seeing a pdoc, on Lexapro, no help.
Iknow this is wrong, but considering HGH to see if I can get relief from depression there.

Do more complete tyroid testing:

27 T3, Total (859X)
28 T4, Total (Thyroxine)
29 T3, Free
30 T4,Free
31 T3, Reverse (967X)
32 Ultrasensitive TSH
33 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)

==============
Also basic thyroid supporting testing:

7 • Iodine Panel - (2503)
8 Selenium
9 Copper, serum
10 Zinc
24 VITAMIN SCREEN
25 VITAMIN B PANEL 2 - (9067)
26 Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy, LC/MS/MS - (17306X)
====================

Add also:

17 • Iron and Iron Binding Capacity (7573X) - (356N)
18 • Iron, Total (571X) - (24984P)
19 • Ferritin (457X) - (22764P)
20 • Transferrin (891X) - (30346P)
21 • Folate, RBC & Hematocrit - (1768N)
22 • Hemoglobin A1c (496X) - (45484P)
23 • Hemoglobin, Plasma (514X) - (7211P)
==================================================

You should also be aware of basic adrenal condition

39 Aldosterone
40 Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin) (37371X)
41 Cortisol AM/PM
42 DHEA sulfate
========================

get near by hormones:

43 Prolactin - (746X)
44 FSH
45 LH
46 Progesterone, LC/MS/MS - (17183X)
47 Pregnenolone, LC/MS/MS (31493X)
================================================== =====

This should give you better overall Adrenals/Thyroid picture.

We ussually check also T, E1,E2-sensitive, DHT

and few others.

================================================== =======
================================================== =======

Table below should give you some equivalent Synthroid-T4, Armour(T4+T3), T3 values

http://www.armourthyroid.com/con_faqs.aspx#q4

The basic "rule of thumb" in converting thyroid doses is that
100 mcg of T4 is roughly equal to 25 mcg of T3, or 1 grain (60 mg) of Armour Thyroid.



Drug | Thyroid Tablets, USP (Armour® Thyroid) | Liotrix Tablets, USP (Thyrolar®a) | Liothronine Tablets, USP (Cytomel®b) | Levothyroxine Tablets, USP(Unithroid®c, Levoxyl®d, Levothroid®e, Synthroid®f) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 1/4 grain (15 mg) | 1/4 | | 25 mcg (.025 mg) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 1/2 grain (30 mg) | 1/2 | 12.5 mcg | 50 mcg (.05 mg) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 1 grain (60 mg) | 1 | 25 mcg | 100 mcg (0.1 mg) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 1 1/2 grains (90 mg) | 1 1/2 | 37.5 mcg | 150 mcg (0.15 mg) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 2 grains (120 mg) | 2 | 50 mcg | 200 mcg (0.2 mg) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 3 grains (180 mg) | 3 | 75 mcg | 300 mcg (0.3 mg) |


Endocrinology Articles
http://emedicine.medscape.com/endocrinology

================================================== ======
Looks to me that you should do fine using 3 Grains of Armour.
That is until you do more thorough testing (2-3 months after you stabilize on 3 grains)

Latter on you may need
--more aromur
--less Armour with ballance replaced by T3
--other combinations
depending on your test results

================================================== ======
Translate please:
"I am seeing a pdoc, on Lexapro, no help.
================================================== =========
.
.

[chilln]

wONDERING IF i SHOULD DITCH THE synthroid and add more ARMOUR,?
any thoughts?


Although JanSz's list has more items, I do not believe that the thyroid hormone axis alone should ever be investigated in this much detail.

Ie: I do believe the thyroid hormone axis should be investigated to the level of detail listed in JanSz's top section, ie:

T3, Total (859X)
T4, Total (Thyroxine)
T3, Free
T4,Free
T3, Reverse (967X)
Ultrasensitive TSH
Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)

...but I do not beleve the remaining tests should be performed to investigate the thyroid hormone axis alone.

ie: there's no point throwing that much energy at just the thyroid hormone axis, when:

a) the thyroid hormones are highly dependent on the performance of the sex hormones and the performance of the stress hormones.

and

b) the performance of the stress hormones and the performance of the sex hormones are highly dependent on the performance of the growth hormones and amount of deep sleep per night.

###

Ie: the remaining tests in JanSz's list should be performed when investigating the remaining hormone axes, ie:

a) stress hormone axis (cortisol primarily, measured via 4 x salivary cortisol through the day)

b) sex hormone axis (testosterone/LH/FSH/SHBG/estradiol/DHEA/progesterone/pregnenolone primarily, measured via both serum and urinary means)

c) growth hormone axis (growth hormone/IGF-1/IGFBP-3 primarily, measured via both serum and urinary means)

d) insulin

###

The choice of which hormone axes you need to measure should be made by an experienced medical professional adviser, after looking at a comprehensive picture of your symptoms.

Usually an anti-aging medical professional advsier will initially request the full list of tests for all these hormone axes (incl insulin). But if you've had them done in msaller batches, than that should suffice, provided you weren't undergoing hormone boost therapy in between batches of tests.

[matttaylor]

Do more complete tyroid testing:

27 T3, Total (859X)
28 T4, Total (Thyroxine)
29 T3, Free
30 T4,Free
31 T3, Reverse (967X)
32 Ultrasensitive TSH
33 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)

==============
Also basic thyroid supporting testing:

7 • Iodine Panel - (2503)
8 Selenium
9 Copper, serum
10 Zinc
24 VITAMIN SCREEN
25 VITAMIN B PANEL 2 - (9067)
26 Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy, LC/MS/MS - (17306X)
====================

Add also:

17 • Iron and Iron Binding Capacity (7573X) - (356N)
18 • Iron, Total (571X) - (24984P)
19 • Ferritin (457X) - (22764P)
20 • Transferrin (891X) - (30346P)
21 • Folate, RBC & Hematocrit - (1768N)
22 • Hemoglobin A1c (496X) - (45484P)
23 • Hemoglobin, Plasma (514X) - (7211P)
==================================================

You should also be aware of basic adrenal condition

39 Aldosterone
40 Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin) (37371X)
41 Cortisol AM/PM
42 DHEA sulfate
========================

get near by hormones:

43 Prolactin - (746X)
44 FSH
45 LH
46 Progesterone, LC/MS/MS - (17183X)
47 Pregnenolone, LC/MS/MS (31493X)
================================================== =====

This should give you better overall Adrenals/Thyroid picture.

We ussually check also T, E1,E2-sensitive, DHT

and few others.

================================================== =======
================================================== =======

Table below should give you some equivalent Synthroid-T4, Armour(T4+T3), T3 values

http://www.armourthyroid.com/con_faqs.aspx#q4

The basic "rule of thumb" in converting thyroid doses is that
100 mcg of T4 is roughly equal to 25 mcg of T3, or 1 grain (60 mg) of Armour Thyroid.



Drug | Thyroid Tablets, USP (Armour® Thyroid) | Liotrix Tablets, USP (Thyrolar®a) | Liothronine Tablets, USP (Cytomel®b) | Levothyroxine Tablets, USP(Unithroid®c, Levoxyl®d, Levothroid®e, Synthroid®f) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 1/4 grain (15 mg) | 1/4 | | 25 mcg (.025 mg) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 1/2 grain (30 mg) | 1/2 | 12.5 mcg | 50 mcg (.05 mg) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 1 grain (60 mg) | 1 | 25 mcg | 100 mcg (0.1 mg) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 1 1/2 grains (90 mg) | 1 1/2 | 37.5 mcg | 150 mcg (0.15 mg) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 2 grains (120 mg) | 2 | 50 mcg | 200 mcg (0.2 mg) |
Approx. Dose Equivalent | 3 grains (180 mg) | 3 | 75 mcg | 300 mcg (0.3 mg) |


Endocrinology Articles
http://emedicine.medscape.com/endocrinology

================================================== ======
Looks to me that you should do fine using 3 Grains of Armour.
That is until you do more thorough testing (2-3 months after you stabilize on 3 grains)

Latter on you may need
--more aromur
--less Armour with ballance replaced by T3
--other combinations
depending on your test results

================================================== ======
Translate please:
"I am seeing a pdoc, on Lexapro, no help.
================================================== =========
.
.
Translate please:
"I am seeing a pdoc, on Lexapro, no help.
=====================================

what I meant was Doctor have me on ssri [ AD meds] they are no help. I have been hypo thyroid since age 13 [ 46 now]. I started ARMOUR several months ago and had a 40 window of feeling great when on armour then it went away. We added back some synthroid because of blood test. I am thinking of taking more armour now to see if it helps.
BTW does labcorp offer the test you meantioned, Rhein Labs doesnot .

[matttaylor]

[

I have a hard time following this, but I id the 24 rhein test , cortisol was a bit low, prescribed the steroid for that [ low dose] but not started it yet.
If indeed I started an increase in Armour, would I drop the synthroid that I added>?

[wondering]

why add synthroid instead of Armour?

I started Armour january of 2008 over time had to increase dose a bit. This past winter anxiety creeped in so bad I couldnt drive on a highway without fear id pass out. Had Thyroid labs run and my Free T4 was bottomed out and this was after a year of being on Armour and on a 90mg a day dose.

Went up to 2 grains and bingo, feel great.

So it has taken me just over a year to get the right dose. Time will tell if this is my sweet spot. I don't believe you have been on Armour that long. Test, adjust dose.

[matttaylor]

why add synthroid instead of Armour?

I started Armour january of 2008 over time had to increase dose a bit. This past winter anxiety creeped in so bad I couldnt drive on a highway without fear id pass out. Had Thyroid labs run and my Free T4 was bottomed out and this was after a year of being on Armour and on a 90mg a day dose.

Went up to 2 grains and bingo, feel great.

So it has taken me just over a year to get the right dose. Time will tell if this is my sweet spot. I don't believe you have been on Armour that long. Test, adjust dose.
she added synthroid cuz my t4 was low?
I am on a 120 day dose with 100 synthroid, perhaps ditch the synthroid and add more armour?

[chilln]

I have a hard time following this, but I id the 24 rhein test , cortisol was a bit low, prescribed the steroid for that [ low dose] but not started it yet.
If indeed I started an increase in Armour, would I drop the synthroid that I added>?

This response sounds to me like you do not understand your hormones, and you are not attempting to understand your hormones, and all you want is for us to recommend some therapy for you, based on some lab numbers.

Is this correct ?

[matttaylor]

T3, Total (859X)
T4, Total (Thyroxine)
T3, Free
T4,Free
T3, Reverse (967X)
Ultrasensitive TSH
Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)

do any of the labs offer these, like LEF.org etc? i have never seen any off these tests grouped like this in a mail order kit?
Idont think lab corp offers it.

[matttaylor]

This response sounds to me like you do not understand your hormones, and you are not attempting to understand your hormones, and all you want is for us to recommend some therapy for you, based on some lab numbers.

Is this correct ?


your are partially correct, I am attempting to understand my hormones, but this SSRI Lexapro has me F....up I cant think well anymore. I have 3 doctors for these hormones, and I get partial answers from them . I cant expect you all to recommend therapy, but just a course of action to take.
I have emailed my doctor in the last few minutes to see if labcorp will run the set of test suggested here
T3, Total (859X)
T4, Total (Thyroxine)
T3, Free
T4,Free
T3, Reverse (967X)
Ultrasensitive TSH
Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X),

then will post result here. I know this much, for 40 days I felt great on ARMOUR, then something went wrong and feel in to the depression cycle again. DR added in synthroid, still makes no difference .

[matttaylor]

LEF offers

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLICHTEN02/Dr-Lichten-Comprehensive-Thyroid-Panel-Blood-Test.html

is that a complete test?

genova diagnostic offers the folowing

DESCRIPTION: This test analyzes serum levels of TSH, free T4, free T3, reverse T3, anti-TG antibodies, and anti-TPO antibodies to assess central and peripheral thyroid function, as well as thyroid auto-immunity

[JanSz]

LEF offers

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLICHTEN02/Dr-Lichten-Comprehensive-Thyroid-Panel-Blood-Test.html

is that a complete test?

genova diagnostic offers the folowing

DESCRIPTION: This test analyzes serum levels of TSH, free T4, free T3, reverse T3, anti-TG antibodies, and anti-TPO antibodies to assess central and peripheral thyroid function, as well as thyroid auto-immunity

It is good test, if you cannot get the complete list.
you will get:

TSH,
free T4,
free T3,
reverse T3,
anti-TG antibodies, and anti-TPO antibodies
====================================

you will be missing:

T3, Total (859X) (important if T3 is low or if RT3 is high)
T4, Total (Thyroxine)

also it may be a good idea to test TSH,
specially if your SHBG happens to be low.
.
.

[matttaylor]

is ARMOUR PLUS SYNTHROID in various doses the thinking, or is it take Just ARMOUR at the right dose .?
My primary doc was concerned Armour would not give my body what it needed for sure, and adding T3 may be needed.
I gues what I am asking, is it common to MIX synthroid and ARMOUR? to doses that work?

[wondering]

Armour has everything Synthroid has plus more.

Synthroid has T4

Armour has T4, plus T3, T1 and T2 plus possibly other naturally occuring items.

Why would your Dr. think the reverse?

It is not too common to mix, but if someone had low T4, but good T3 it would be possible to mix.


is ARMOUR PLUS SYNTHROID in various doses the thinking, or is it take Just ARMOUR at the right dose .?
My primary doc was concerned Armour would not give my body what it needed for sure, and adding T3 may be needed.
I gues what I am asking, is it common to MIX synthroid and ARMOUR? to doses that work?

[wondering]

see my previous post... if all you had was T4 and TSH, why would she assume T3 was good and you just need T4.

If she believed Armour was ok to prescribe at first, why wouldnt it be ok to increase the dose in light of below range tests. That doesnt make sense to me.

I would ask if you could just increase the Armour to get to midrange. After all you felt good when you first tried it, why not stay with it.

You will have some ups and downs, but be confident it will get better.


she added synthroid cuz my t4 was low?
I am on a 120 day dose with 100 synthroid, perhaps ditch the synthroid and add more armour?

[JanSz]

is ARMOUR PLUS SYNTHROID in various doses the thinking, or is it take Just ARMOUR at the right dose .?
My primary doc was concerned Armour would not give my body what it needed for sure, and adding T3 may be needed.
I gues what I am asking, is it common to MIX synthroid and ARMOUR? to doses that work?

95% MD's will put you on synthroid-T4, regardles how much you beg for anything else.

The other enlighten will give your Armour Thyroid, helps many.

From my research on RT3 and (Type3 deiodinase)
it look to me that good (additional) gains could be had by pushing RT3 below bottom half of range or even lower.

That would require replacing a portion of Armour dose with T3.
In extreme cases T3 only.

I do not see how this theraphy can be possible or succesful with out use of blood testing for variety of thyroid hormones and proteins (and carefull monitoring/testing and management of Adrenals).
.
.
Few weeks ago I had a chance to be in company of three of my local thyroid specialists (MD's).
I drew a blank when I started on this.
None of them ever prescribe T3.
.

[GirlyMan]

When I started TRT , for a month the depression lifted, then returned. Then my doctor started me on ARMOUR a few months ago [ was on synthroid 225mcg for 30 years] , I felt GREAT for 40 days on the ARMOUR [ 2 X 60 MG DAILY] , \then depression returned.

I am saddened to hear this, Matt. I was hoping that TRT + Armour would be enough to sedate your black dog. Androgel alone was enough to quiet mine.


This response sounds to me like you do not understand your hormones, and you are not attempting to understand your hormones, and all you want is for us to recommend some therapy for you, based on some lab numbers.

Your response seems insensitive and callous to me. Your response sounds to me that either you have never faced the black dog or you have succesfully reincorporated it (mine is feral, it has thus far eluded rehabilitation). Your response sounds to me like you do not understand that when I am kicking the cage trying to quiet the beast hoping to hell that the lock will hold that my HPTA is the last thing on my mind. Dude's depression has returned despite HRT w/ good labs and he's just looking for some advice.

95% MD's will put you on synthroid-T4, regardles how much you beg for anything else.

Count my wife's DR in that 95%. She got put on Synthriod a month or so ago when her TSH was in the 70's. I was like, wtf, I was worried when mine went from 1.6 to 3.3 after starting Androgel. Shouldn't you be like almost comatose or something with a TSH that high?

[anyman]

Count my wife's DR in that 95%. She got put on Synthriod a month or so ago when her TSH was in the 70's. I was like, wtf, I was worried when mine went from 1.6 to 3.3 after starting Androgel. Shouldn't you be like almost comatose or something with a TSH that high?

I am noticing this pattern- TSH rising when on TRT. This happened to me as well. Why?

[JanSz]

Count my wife's DR in that 95%. She got put on Synthriod a month or so ago when her TSH was in the 70's. I was like, wtf, I was worried when mine went from 1.6 to 3.3 after starting Androgel. Shouldn't you be like almost comatose or something with a TSH that high?

I hope you will get her properly tested.

And not just couple #'s and then mostly guessing and hoping and wishing and trying not to offend "authority".

.

[chilln]

is ARMOUR PLUS SYNTHROID in various doses the thinking, or is it take Just ARMOUR at the right dose .?
My primary doc was concerned Armour would not give my body what it needed for sure, and adding T3 may be needed.
I gues what I am asking, is it common to MIX synthroid and ARMOUR? to doses that work?


If your antobidies turn out to be high, then don't take Iodoral.

But if your antibodies turn out to be low, then definitely start supplementing with Iodoral, which is a mixture of iodine and potassium iodide. At least 1/2 a tab per day (break them in two) or maybe even 1 or 2 tabs initially.

You may find that 1 or 2 tabs of Iodoral per day causes digestion difficulties (loose stools) but you can work up to 1 or 2 tabs per day if you need that much.

While people rave on and on about Armour thyroid, you should be able to reduce your dose of Armour thyroid by supplementing with Iodoral.

Our thyroid hormones do not seem to be genetically programmed to reduce (as testosterone is genetically programmed to reduce) as we age. Therefore supplementing with some micronutrition which feeds our thyroid, should yield good dividends.

###

When it comes to thyroid hormone supplementation, it's really really important that you understand that the thyroid hormone T4 has a half life of 7 days, and the thyroid stores T4 too, so it's very easy to oversupply the body with T4. Typically that initial good feeling followed by a return to normal is a sign that your T4 (and maybe even T3 too) has overshot the mark.

Please discuss this with your medical professional adviser, and perhaps you should reduce your T4 until your T4 recovers.

But it takes just as long to correct an overshoot as it did to get there in the first place, when you dose gradually.

That's a real bummer, but if you are initially too high on T4, and you try to over-correct by completely backing off armour and/or synthroid, then you can get to a point where your T4 is optimum (good), and after that your T4 will undershoot and your T4 will be too low again.

If you don't monitor your T4 carefully, then that's what happens.

My point is that you do need to do a lot more monitoring of thyroid hormones, because mistakes take a LONG time to correct.

You have to be far more precise with thyroid hormone supplementation than with testosterone supplementation.

###

As for the ideal mix of armour, with-or-without additional synthroid (T4), with-or-without-additional T3 (cytomel), the answer goes lihe this:

1) We always start with Iodoral (ie micro nutrition) provided our antibodies are low, and we see how much of an improvement we get with this mechanism.

2) If Iodoral alone wasn't enough then we add Armour before brekky, and again 7 hours later (before meal, not after meal). We adjust our dosages up and down gradually, and we measure carefully too (definitely not just symptoms!!!)

3) For a few months we gradually adjust Armour, and we determine the best we can get with straight Armour.

4) If we determine from measurements that we still need additional T4 (Synthroid) or additional T3 (Cytomel), and we add a small increment of either T4 or T3 as appropriate to our existing dosage of Armour and Iodoral.

[JanSz]

4) If we determine from measurements that we still need additional T4 (Synthroid) or additional T3 (Cytomel), and we add a small increment of either T4 or T3 as appropriate to our existing dosage of Armour and Iodoral.

Would you mind to spell what indicators would you recomend to test and how would you go adjusting them.

We discuss thyroid indicators often,
at this time I am interested of your view when someone have

mildly raised antibodies
low TotalT3 (still within range)
highish RT3 (still within range)

------------------------
another case, similar as above, except low antibodies

..........
If you have an answer but would rather place it in separate post,
feel free to transfer my post to a new thread.

or (better) to this thread:
http://musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?p=38918#post38918
.
.

[wondering]

I'll be a broken record. Before you get caught up in overthinking and overtesting... the results bolded below indicate a need to increase dose of Armour. It is NOT uncommon for levels to rise initially and then go down again. I was on 90mg Armour and my levels were the same as before I started.

Moving up to 120mg has me feeling great.

Yes, it can be this simple.

I would ask to get Free T3 tested to see how you are converting T4 to T3. If conversion is good, then rasiing dose a bit may be all you need. If not and no antibodies, then a trial of Iodoral would be fine.

The 120mg (2 x 60mg)... is this a split dose? when is your second dose? are you allowing enough time for stomach to empty.

I would start here before ordering every test under the sun.


When I started TRT , for a month the depression lifted, then returned. Then my doctor started me on ARMOUR a few months ago [ was on synthroid 225mcg for 30 years] , I felt GREAT for 40 days on the ARMOUR [ 2 X 60 MG DAILY] , \then depression returned.
after a few months on the armour and blood tests
T 4 , free was .7 on a .8-1.8 ng/dl scale
tsh 3rd generation 5.75 on a .40-4.50 miu/l scale

so we added 100 mcg of synthroid to the ARMOUR
blood test are
t 4 1.32 .61- 1.76 scale
tsh .416 .450-4.5o scale

Currently on TRT, T shots and hcg as per doctor and as other on this forum, number are ok, E is high though.

wONDERING IF i SHOULD DITCH THE synthroid and add more ARMOUR,?
any thoughts?

did ther rhien lab test, should some low cortisol and some vitamin deficiencys, but nothing to terribly wrong. Just trying to rule out hormone issue in my battle against depression.
I am seeing a pdoc, on Lexapro, no help.
Iknow this is wrong, but considering HGH to see if I can get relief from depression there.

[matttaylor]

thank you all for the advice, especially WONDERING for your simple answer.
I do not split the dose, I will start that tommorrow.
I am going to do the blood tests, get results and make adjustments.
My quick thinking was since 1 grain of Armour is roughly equal to 100 mcg of synthroid, and I am on 2 grains [ 120 armour] daily , that going higher would mean trouble.
Buried in my thoughts, I think I read DR C say he rarely thought more then 2 grain are needed. I could be wrong.

[matttaylor]

To show my support to this site, I am going to the donate page to make up the $140 shortfall for the month. I can only offer $ to this site , my thoughts are scrambled from Lexapro [ and recent wellbutrin stoppage] and I am not knowledgeable to add to the topics
I like to give , not be a taker from folks that help me.

Matt

[wondering]

Yes, Dr. Crisler has said the 120mg is usually plenty of Armour. If tests are still low, how well you absorb can be an issue. But going a bit higher is not unheard of.

Splitting the dose will help keep your T3 levels higher thruout the day, since the half-life of T3 is about 7 hours.

But, the half-life of T4 is about 7 days, so splitting the dose will have almost no effect on your T4 levels...meaning you likely will need more Amour or address any stomach issues.

Do not take the second dose more than 7 hours away from first dose. Too far apart can hurt any endogenous production.

I had a hard time doing a second dose after lunch... time of lunch was too variable and I wanted to leave a good 2.5 hours for stomach to clear... that may still not be long enough.

So I take my second dose 4.5 hours after my first. Breakfast is usually lighter for me and easy for me to take the Armour 1/2 hour before lunch. I can always delay my eating.

Understand not everyone needs to split their dose.


thank you all for the advice, especially WONDERING for your simple answer.
I do not split the dose, I will start that tommorrow.
I am going to do the blood tests, get results and make adjustments.
My quick thinking was since 1 grain of Armour is roughly equal to 100 mcg of synthroid, and I am on 2 grains [ 120 armour] daily , that going higher would mean trouble.
Buried in my thoughts, I think I read DR C say he rarely thought more then 2 grain are needed. I could be wrong.

[NeverQuit]

Nevermind the tests. They are mostly a meaningless waste of money. It is obvious that you need thyroid. Most people feel good on btween 2-5 grains. If it were me I would titrate up until the symptoms go away, REGARDLESS of what the labs say provided I was not experiencing thyrotoxic symptoms. There is no blood test that measures the amoount of thyroid that reaches your tissues, so I would always dose by symptoms. But that is just me. You would need to talk to your doctor and follow any advice he gives.

[chilln]

Nevermind the tests. They are mostly a meaningless waste of money.


Only to you, and possibly also your medical professional adviser.

The majority of us do not agree.




It is obvious that you need thyroid. Most people feel good on between 2-5 grains. If it were me I would titrate up until the symptoms go away, REGARDLESS of what the labs say provided I was not experiencing thyrotoxic symptoms.


We all dose via symptoms. You're not unique in this regard.

But most of us also take labs into account.

If your medical professional adviser were a little wiser, he would be able to help you better than his current levels of success, and he would use both labs and symptoms to do so.

The big deal about the ~2 grains of Armour is that Dr Crisler is good at minimizing dosages of any one hormone by supplementing with several different hormones in small doses.

You seem to be attempting to simplify your hormone supplementation by going heavy on the thyroid supps, but from an overall health perspective, balance with several hormones is better than simplicity with just a few.




There is no blood test that measures the amoount of thyroid that reaches your tissues,


The serum tests and urine tests help show upstream and downstream effects (blockages) to an experienced medical professional adviser. From there the medical professional adviser can work out a more holistic therapy, rather than blitzing any one hormone.



so I would always dose by symptoms. But that is just me. You would need to talk to your doctor and follow any advice he gives.


We all dose via symptoms. You're not unique in this regard.

But most of us also take labs into account.

[wondering]

Symptoms are important as the amount of hormone we all need can vary from individual to individual.... BUT, some symptoms can be caused by different issues. Why take more Armour, if the issue is an Iodine deficiency? You could be upping your Armour dose to 4 grains, when all you need are 2 grains and some Iodoral.


Nevermind the tests. They are mostly a meaningless waste of money. It is obvious that you need thyroid. Most people feel good on btween 2-5 grains. If it were me I would titrate up until the symptoms go away, REGARDLESS of what the labs say provided I was not experiencing thyrotoxic symptoms. There is no blood test that measures the amoount of thyroid that reaches your tissues, so I would always dose by symptoms. But that is just me. You would need to talk to your doctor and follow any advice he gives.