Apathy/loss of motivation - what to expect from TRT

[brianlaughlin]

one of the cardinal symptoms of my hypogonadism seems to very low motivation and a general apathy towards life. I would like to hear from some other members about how TRT has or has not helped address their motivational drive. I am pretty disciplined person otherwise (exercise, diet, etc), I just really feel that my passion for things is truly impaired. I should of course continue to explore more behavioral interventions than just TRT but I'm hoping that the T will hopefully provide some improvement.

Can some more experienced members offer some honest insight about whether TRT in itself has helped get them going again?

Brian

[MarkLA]

IMHO, lack of motivation is going to be a factor of more variables than just low T. If your cause is some other psychological, biochemical, behavioral cause then perhaps it will be less helpful.

In my case, friends noticed I was more apathetic and lacked energy and enthusiasm. I still did my job, got things done, was not debilitated, but my world was more gray than color especially in comparison to how I feel now.

Note that I would not expect immediate results. I think for me it took a good number of months to notice..

Mark

[crazycrew]

Everyone who needs trt will tell you how much better they feel however; first thing for you to do is find out if you need it. There are blood tests that will tell you that and until you get those done it would be a waste of time trying to second guess your symptoms.. Read the stickys to acquint yourself with some of the procedures. Hope this helps

[bgnb]

couple books to consider ...

The Power of Now (Echhart Tolle) -- very good book at getting
your focus off everything around you and onto 'now' ... it may
help you to focus better on doing things when you are fully present
rather than distracted.

The Passion Test -- very good book for helping to discover your
passions ... we may be 'dedicated' to some things but really not
passionate about them ... by recognizing what you are passionate
about in your life you can put more focussed energy on realizing
them.

As for TRT ... it may help increase your energy, clarify your thoughts,
reduce the emotional ups and downs, but if you are still stressed and
lack clear focus and goals then you may find it isn't as helpful as it
can be.

[00slotiv]

one of the cardinal symptoms of my hypogonadism seems to very low motivation and a general apathy towards life. I would like to hear from some other members about how TRT has or has not helped address their motivational drive. I am pretty disciplined person otherwise (exercise, diet, etc), I just really feel that my passion for things is truly impaired. I should of course continue to explore more behavioral interventions than just TRT but I'm hoping that the T will hopefully provide some improvement.

Can some more experienced members offer some honest insight about whether TRT in itself has helped get them going again?

Brian

I agree with BGNB in post # 4. It helps to have a vision of where you want to go, what you want to accomplish, even if it is just to feel like you did when you were younger, physically.

When you were younger you probably were more willing to try different things and maybe were sharper mentally too.

For me personally, it has helped me be more outgoing, less focused on small details, more assertive and willing to do different things in general.

The changes mentally and emotionally are greater with me than the physical changes right now since I can't lift for a long time yet. Feels like a complete engine overhaul. Definitely feel revved up.

Bob

[rick055]

I didn't want to get off of my couch before TRT. I was profoundly depressed, utterly lacking in motivation, had to corral every ounce of will I had to do the most mundane, daily tasks, after which I'd head back to the couch.

In that respect, TRT was life changing. Thanks, Dr. John.

[LowT]

I didn't want to get off of my couch before TRT. I was profoundly depressed, utterly lacking in motivation, had to corral every ounce of will I had to do the most mundane, daily tasks, after which I'd head back to the couch.

In that respect, TRT was life changing. Thanks, Dr. John.

Glad to hear you're doing so well. How long did it take you to feel this change from when you started TRT?

[rick055]

Glad to hear you're doing so well. How long did it take you to feel this change from when you started TRT?

I started on transdermals which, in my case, did nothing but elevate DHT.

6 months thereafter I started IM injections. Maybe a month after that I began truly coming round (though I certainly felt the first injection).

And don't get me wrong, I don't feel manic or anything, just vibrant.

[chilln]

one of the cardinal symptoms of my hypogonadism seems to very low motivation and a general apathy towards life. I would like to hear from some other members about how TRT has or has not helped address their motivational drive. I am pretty disciplined person otherwise (exercise, diet, etc), I just really feel that my passion for things is truly impaired. I should of course continue to explore more behavioral interventions than just TRT but I'm hoping that the T will hopefully provide some improvement.

Can some more experienced members offer some honest insight about whether TRT in itself has helped get them going again?

Brian


Brian, we don't focus on any one hormone axis in this forum.

If we did that, then there would only be a small percentage of people benefiting.

The concept that an aging male need only investigate testosterone replacement, is mythical. It's propagated by patients, and a few medical professionals.

But it's still better than the vast majority of medical professionals who aren't prepared to help a male boost any hormones.

Could you please expand your view of male hormones and their genetic degradation, to beyond just testosterone ?

###

The background to why I ask this of you is as follows:

The performance of the sex hormones (ie: their ability to trigger rapid healing) is highly dependent on:

a) the performance of the thyroid hormones

and

b) the performance of the stress hormones

and

c) the performance of the growth hormones

and

d) the performance of insulin

###

You can reword this same sentence to apply to every combination of the above hormone axes, ie:

The performance of the thyroid hormones (ie: their ability to control the rate of healing) is highly dependent on the performance of the sex hormones, and the performance of the stress hormones, and the performance of the growth hormones, and the performance of insulin.

or

The performance of the stress hormones (ie: their ability to suppress the performance of testosterone and growth hormone) is highly dependent on the performance of the sex hormones, and the performance of the thyroid hormones, and the performance of the growth hormones, and the performance of insulin

or

The performance of the growth hormones (ie: their ability to trigger comprehensive repairs) is highly dependent on the performance of the sex hormones, and the performance of the thyroid hormones, and the performance of the growth hormones, and the performance of insulin

or

The performance of insulin (ie: its ability to deliver energy to the cells via control of the rate of glucose metabolism) is highly dependent on the performance of the sex hormones, and the performance of the stress hormones, and the performance of the growth hormones, and the performance of the thyroid hormones.

###

It is not true to say:

The levels of the sex hormones is highly dependent on:

a) the levels of the thyroid hormones

and

b) the levels of the stress hormones

and

c) the levels of the growth hormones

and

d) the level of insulin

(same goes for other combinations of this sentence, using the word "levels".)

###

Even if a male's hormone levels have only degraded minimally, then that can have drastic consequences for a recreational bodybuilder, or a heavily mentally stressed father of 3 children.

Even if a male's hormone levels have only degraded by a long way, then that may go undetected until that person is around 70 years of age, if that person plays very little sport and experiences very little mental stress during their life.

In both these cases, and everyone in-between, these 4 hormone axes plus insulin must be assessed in parallel. Hopefully only one of the hormone axes needs to be addressed with therapy, but that's actually rare, by the time most males become aware of their debilitation(s).

What this means is that we all degrade differently. So some of us boost our testosterone, some of us suppress our estradiol, some of us boost our growth hormone, some of us force ourselves to sleep deeply, some of us boost our cortisol, and some of us boost our thyroid hormones.

And many of us boost two or more of these hormones, while suppressing others.

###

Conclusion:

If someone is not benefiting from boosting their testosterone alone, then that's because their medical professional adviser, and their own understanding of hormones, have not yet hit the minimum level of comprehension of the individual's 4 hormone axes plus insulin.

Also, since hormones are very powerful, and some like thyroid hormone T4 have such long half lives (approx 7 days) then experienced medical professional advisers must take a gently gently approach, so the person may still be in a transitional period, even when they are in good hands.

[medgerton]

one of the cardinal symptoms of my hypogonadism seems to very low motivation and a general apathy towards life. I would like to hear from some other members about how TRT has or has not helped address their motivational drive. I am pretty disciplined person otherwise (exercise, diet, etc), I just really feel that my passion for things is truly impaired. I should of course continue to explore more behavioral interventions than just TRT but I'm hoping that the T will hopefully provide some improvement.

Can some more experienced members offer some honest insight about whether TRT in itself has helped get them going again?

Brian

HRT has made a tremendous difference for me. One year ago I felt terrible. Low energy, no motivation, depressed, felt like I was dying. All this occurred rapidly. I remember that I could not bring myself to go into my home office and work.

After 2 months feeling like this I started transdermal T. This made a big improvement in most areas. Still had anxiety and fatigue. Once I added pregnenolone, HCG an Arimidex I felt back to normal.

This process took about 9 months to feel back to normal. I had some symptom improvement quickly when I started TD T. But it took the 9 months to feel really good.

[living2die]

Spot on...brilliantly said. I'm sick of all the hormonal reductionists out there who feel that T alone will solve all of your woes and operates a segue to nirvana...get a grip it. I once was allured by the T lotus blossom only to be sorely disappointed. I was 100x happier when I wasn't on TRT vs. when I was. I am a HCG mono man. I would rather inject rat poison than inject T.



Brian, we don't focus on any one hormone axis in this forum.

If we did that, then there would only be a small percentage of people benefiting.

The concept that an aging male need only investigate testosterone replacement, is mythical. It's propagated by patients, and a few medical professionals.

But it's still better than the vast majority of medical professionals who aren't prepared to help a male boost any hormones.

Could you please expand your view of male hormones and their genetic degradation, to beyond just testosterone ?

###

The background to why I ask this of you is as follows:

The performance of the sex hormones (ie: their ability to trigger rapid healing) is highly dependent on:

a) the performance of the thyroid hormones

and

b) the performance of the stress hormones

and

c) the performance of the growth hormones

and

d) the performance of insulin

###

You can reword this same sentence to apply to every combination of the above hormone axes, ie:

The performance of the thyroid hormones (ie: their ability to control the rate of healing) is highly dependent on the performance of the sex hormones, and the performance of the stress hormones, and the performance of the growth hormones, and the performance of insulin.

or

The performance of the stress hormones (ie: their ability to suppress the performance of testosterone and growth hormone) is highly dependent on the performance of the sex hormones, and the performance of the thyroid hormones, and the performance of the growth hormones, and the performance of insulin

or

The performance of the growth hormones (ie: their ability to trigger comprehensive repairs) is highly dependent on the performance of the sex hormones, and the performance of the thyroid hormones, and the performance of the growth hormones, and the performance of insulin

or

The performance of insulin (ie: its ability to deliver energy to the cells via control of the rate of glucose metabolism) is highly dependent on the performance of the sex hormones, and the performance of the stress hormones, and the performance of the growth hormones, and the performance of the thyroid hormones.

###

It is not true to say:

The levels of the sex hormones is highly dependent on:

a) the levels of the thyroid hormones

and

b) the levels of the stress hormones

and

c) the levels of the growth hormones

and

d) the level of insulin

(same goes for other combinations of this sentence, using the word "levels".)

###

Even if a male's hormone levels have only degraded minimally, then that can have drastic consequences for a recreational bodybuilder, or a heavily mentally stressed father of 3 children.

Even if a male's hormone levels have only degraded by a long way, then that may go undetected until that person is around 70 years of age, if that person plays very little sport and experiences very little mental stress during their life.

In both these cases, and everyone in-between, these 4 hormone axes plus insulin must be assessed in parallel. Hopefully only one of the hormone axes needs to be addressed with therapy, but that's actually rare, by the time most males become aware of their debilitation(s).

What this means is that we all degrade differently. So some of us boost our testosterone, some of us suppress our estradiol, some of us boost our growth hormone, some of us force ourselves to sleep deeply, some of us boost our cortisol, and some of us boost our thyroid hormones.

And many of us boost two or more of these hormones, while suppressing others.

###

Conclusion:

If someone is not benefiting from boosting their testosterone alone, then that's because their medical professional adviser, and their own understanding of hormones, have not yet hit the minimum level of comprehension of the individual's 4 hormone axes plus insulin.

Also, since hormones are very powerful, and some like thyroid hormone T4 have such long half lives (approx 7 days) then experienced medical professional advisers must take a gently gently approach, so the person may still be in a transitional period, even when they are in good hands.