New T results for twice a week shots

[00slotiv]

After using 140 mg once per week and T ranging from <1500 to 780, Free T from <444 to 188, and Bio T from <1100 to 507, I switched to 60 mg twice a week.

Now the Total T was 867 (1080 top for youthful range)
Free 233 (244 top)
Bio T 635 (682 top)
SHBG 18 (11-80) I hope this stays where it is, it usually is in the low to mid 20s.

Nicely layered.

I feel the same as on the other schedule, which is feeling very good.

The T draw was on Friday late-afternoon at the usual time and no HCG (250)was used on Thursday or Friday morning so if it was the Bio T would be right where I want to see it, so all in all, I find it difficult to criticize. :001_wub:

If my physician is okay then I can wait quite a bit longer to retest.

I think something is up with the E2 though and when the results come back, I predict it will be higher than I want it, especially with a low SHBG. I hope I am wrong.

One monkey off my back anyway.

Bob

[chilln]

After using 140 mg once per week and T ranging from <1500 to 780, Free T from <444 to 188, and Bio T from <1100 to 507, I switched to 60 mg twice a week.

Now the Total T was 867 (1080 top for youthful range)
Free 233 (244 top)
Bio T 635 (682 top)
SHBG 18 (11-80) I hope this stays where it is, it usually is in the low to mid 20s.

Nicely layered.

I feel the same as on the other schedule, which is feeling very good.

The T draw was on Friday late-afternoon at the usual time and no HCG (250)was used on Thursday or Friday morning so if it was the Bio T would be right where I want to see it, so all in all, I find it difficult to criticize. :001_wub:

If my physician is okay then I can wait quite a bit longer to retest.

I think something is up with the E2 though and when the results come back, I predict it will be higher than I want it, especially with a low SHBG. I hope I am wrong.

One monkey off my back anyway.

Bob

Have you shared the contact info for your medical professional adviser with anyone in your geographic area ?

The combination of your knowledge and her knowledge has made a powerful combination.

Perhaps she has learned enough from you to help others the same way ?

[00slotiv]

Have you shared the contact info for your medical professional adviser with anyone in your geographic area ?

The combination of your knowledge and her knowledge has made a powerful combination.

Perhaps she has learned enough from you to help others the same way ?

Chilln, she has been very amenable to my perceived needs, which I presented on the first visit and gently but firmly mention about every visit. Each visit is an attempt to take a step forward. I communicate with her enough without trying to be a nuisance.

It is funny you mention someone else in the region because yesterday I was told that since no one else within 50 miles offers the very same treatment protocol (I was adamant that Anastrozole, HGH, T injections and HCG for males be the criteria) BCBS will cover her office visits, even though she is not in network and I don't have out of network insurance.

They said they would call everyone up to see if their services mirrored hers and after three weeks must have relented and decided to cover them. This apparently shows how few hormone practitioners, and there are plenty of them around here, don't use these methods. I bet they gave it the college try but were found wanting. So BCBS deserves a hearty :thumbup: after ten months of inexpressible frustration at times.

I have tried to steer people her way but for some reason interest is low but I will keep trying. She is overwrought as it is with patients so I hope she can take something from our experience and help other men. For some reason she isn't sold on HCG being needed to prevent testicular shrinkage but she is willing to prescribe it.

If the cat gets too far out of the bag the insurance company wouldn't cover her on account of someone else (without the developed relationship) having the same strategies. She rescued me when I got booted to the curb by the first person and had nowhere to go so I will remain fiercely loyal to her.

I think she is wearying of the volatile E2 results and may settle on guaging dosing exclusively on symtoms on this assay, which has been a pain in the assay.

After we sniffed each other out for over a year we have the kind of relationship that I sought-total transparency with her with my goals, symptoms, changes, not straight jacketing me with cookie cutter doses, and being willing to run a wide variety of tests.

Sometimes I wonder if she shakes her head when I show her parts of my journal but I wanted someone who takes me seriously and she has even expressed satisfaction when things are going well so I am definitely not a number to her. Where is that "pinching myself" emoticon?

I ask a lot of this nurse practitioner because she can help me achieve a state of being that takes full advantage of HRT. Like the song says, she's close enough to perfect for me. :thumbup1:

She deserves her props. I caught her as she was riding the wave of wanting to devote much more time to this field so looking for "someone on the way up" may be a means to finding a practitioner if someone asks around. She was singled out by a pharmacist I asked for help from.

Bob

[crazycrew]

Thats great news Bob. Its nice to hear a success story.

I too have been feeling great these past few weeks after a year of misery. Finally getting off that hormonal roller coaster most of us have had to ride. I've been dosing EOD for a month now and can't fully express how much better I feel.

Keep up the good fight.

[anyman]

Thats great news Bob. Its nice to hear a success story.

I too have been feeling great these past few weeks after a year of misery. Finally getting off that hormonal roller coaster most of us have had to ride. I've been dosing EOD for a month now and can't fully express how much better I feel.

Keep up the good fight.

Really? Every other day? Plus hcg? Eesh.... I'd feel like a pin cushion! I do both 2X/week for a total of 4 & that's 4 more than I care to do already.

How much do you do on a EOD basis & what about hcg?

[crazycrew]

Really? Every other day? Plus hcg? Eesh.... I'd feel like a pin cushion! I do both 2X/week for a total of 4 & that's 4 more than I care to do already.

How much do you do on a EOD basis & what about hcg?
I've ended up dosing every day. Its easy with the insuline syringes. I don't even feel them puncturing the skin.

http://musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2650&page=10

.2cc test c 200mg EOD.= 20 units on an insulin syringe. which totals .7cc a week average.
10 units HCG = 250ui which totals 875ui a week.

Test one day then HCG then Test ect....

[00slotiv]

Thats great news Bob. Its nice to hear a success story.

I too have been feeling great these past few weeks after a year of misery. Finally getting off that hormonal roller coaster most of us have had to ride. I've been dosing EOD for a month now and can't fully express how much better I feel.

Keep up the good fight.

Thank you Crazycrew. Glad you've had a revival lately and I hope it lasts. I always wonder if the body will get to a point where it just gets comfortable with a new dosing schedule and everything settles in.

Yeah it can take a year or more. It will be at least a year and a half before I get the E2 right. This is one reason for someone to not wait too long before getting intervention.

Bob

[Wise Guy]

Thats awesome Bob.

Are you still using GH? I have to commend her on giving you that in itself. :thumbup1:

All this hiking I'm doing I could use some :cheers2:

[JanSz]

Thank you Crazycrew. Glad you've had a revival lately and I hope it lasts. I always wonder if the body will get to a point where it just gets comfortable with a new dosing schedule and everything settles in.

Yeah it can take a year or more. It will be at least a year and a half before I get the E2 right. This is one reason for someone to not wait too long before getting intervention.

Bob

Between 00slotiv you an Anyman.

The sooner you guys get over it, and start EOD the better for you.
bit*ching about being pin-cushion should feel as a lame excuse when you see others happy when shooting daily.

I changed my EOD schedule.
Previously I did shots every day, T & HCG on alternate days.
I changed that to (T + HCG) one day and shots free day in between.

Density of my testicles fluctuate in synch with my EOD schedule.
The fluctuations are less when I do both shots at one time.
.
.

[00slotiv]

Between 00slotiv you an Anyman.

The sooner you guys get over it, and start EOD the better for you.
bit*ching about being pin-cushion should feel as a lame excuse when you see others happy when shooting daily.

I changed my EOD schedule.
Previously I did shots every day, T & HCG on alternate days.
I changed that to (T + HCG) one day and shots free day in between.

Density of my testicles fluctuate in synch with my EOD schedule.
The fluctuations are less when I do both shots at one time.
.
.

JanSz, I want to understand I am not complaining about the E2. I understand from this board that this is one that will take awhile unless we are fortunate to get it right the first time.

I am doing what I can to figure out what dose is best. I tested last week on days there was some ED to see if this has a correlation to the E2 level. I'm not sweating it or complaining since I am being proactive to narrow this down and have to believe it will pay off.

Of the 12 injections a week I do now, only two are IM, usually with the harpoons, and I enjoy injecting and look forward to it. I was fine when doing HCG IM too. I guess because I was thinking I was going to dread trying to avoid veins and pain, but I like doing it.

If having to experiment with Anastrozole dosing is part of avoiding having flat line testosterone levels than I am all for it. Doctor John is not a proponent of this kind of lack of ebb and flow which is why I was reluctant to even inject T twice a week.

I am a novice and you are doing what you feel is best for you as you should, but at the moment I don't see any reason for me to not have some space in my T levels during the week as intuitively it just seems healthier. It is like taking you foot off the accelerator for awhile. The receptors might need a break.

Remember, I want a gap in my T levels and have to accept a lesser swing now but will not do less than twice a week. Having a flat line T level to me isn't worth avoiding a little aromatase inhibition.

I'd rather do once a week but I was dumping a lot of T between days 3 and 7 but always was happy with this drop because I never felt it. If some guys were sensitive to a drop in T effectiveness at the end of their weekly "cycle" I can appreciate that they wouldn't look forward to that, and would think that they are not realizing the most benefit from their TRT.

The only time I realized I had a problem was when I went from 1450 to 880 during the week to 780 to what would have been around 500. Not as much flux but just not enough T.

Success stories are great, and one size doesn't fit all, and all practitioners are not going to allow practices they aren't used to prescribing.

I could be wrong but it seems to me that you are more interested in promoting your particular regimen than in someone else finding success in a way they are comfortable with.

I inject twice a week and I wouldn't recommend that as my preference is once a week, but that is biased by my experience and particular reservations amd intuitions.

The jury may still be out on our current protocols as a year or more from now, we may feel the need to make adjustments, ie. twice a week my not work for me and EOD may not feel the same to others. All we can do is plug away, test frequently enough, and monitor our response, but it seems to me we shouldn't nudge anyone towards a particular method when they are quite pleased with the success they and their practitioner have arrived at.

Bob

[00slotiv]

Thats awesome Bob.

Are you still using GH? I have to commend her on giving you that in itself. :thumbup1:

All this hiking I'm doing I could use some :cheers2:

I would make a joke about bringing some extra Genotropin for you but the last time I did something like that some guys thought I was being serious. I catch some off guard that way. You can look at it though if we can get together next week, although you have your sights set on the other protocol.

After 17 days I tested the IGF-1 again and it was at 312 with 1.8 ius. The last time it dropped to 235 although at Quest it was 310 half an hour later, so I think possibly it is more like 350 to 370 at Quest. 1.2 to 1.8 has to make a difference. I am calling the dogs off if it settles at that level.

Yes, recovery from hiking would likely be enhanced by raising your GH.

She gave me the Sermorelin too so she is not against trying different things, but I haven't gotten her to okay Hydergine but I haven't brought it up lately and might again when we seal the deal on the hormones.

The process of bringing up HGH and receiving at at home was seamless.

She would probably be interested in Doctor John's new protocol but I'd have to be reimbursed for that and that is far from an automatic experience, with HGH it is just a phone call. To be honest with you, the ease of acquiring the HGH and having it covered appeals to me. I don't relish following up on claim forms filed that are not found and redoing it and spending days on the phone.

The HGH is probably at 6.5 months so I should be starting to see something soon. I'll keep an eye on developments though concerning Sermorelin and GHRP-6.

Bob

[JanSz]

JanSz, I want to understand I am not complaining about the E2. I understand from this board that this is one that will take awhile unless we are fortunate to get it right the first time.

I am doing what I can to figure out what dose is best. I tested last week on days there was some ED to see if this has a correlation to the E2 level. I'm not sweating it or complaining since I am being proactive to narrow this down and have to believe it will pay off.

Of the 12 injections a week I do now, only two are IM, usually with the harpoons, and I enjoy injecting and look forward to it. I was fine when doing HCG IM too. I guess because I was thinking I was going to dread trying to avoid veins and pain, but I like doing it.

If having to experiment with Anastrozole dosing is part of avoiding having flat line testosterone levels than I am all for it. Doctor John is not a proponent of this kind of lack of ebb and flow which is why I was reluctant to even inject T twice a week.

I am a novice and you are doing what you feel is best for you as you should, but at the moment I don't see any reason for me to not have some space in my T levels during the week as intuitively it just seems healthier. It is like taking you foot off the accelerator for awhile. The receptors might need a break.

Remember, I want a gap in my T levels and have to accept a lesser swing now but will not do less than twice a week. Having a flat line T level to me isn't worth avoiding a little aromatase inhibition.

I'd rather do once a week but I was dumping a lot of T between days 3 and 7 but always was happy with this drop because I never felt it. If some guys were sensitive to a drop in T effectiveness at the end of their weekly "cycle" I can appreciate that they wouldn't look forward to that, and would think that they are not realizing the most benefit from their TRT.

The only time I realized I had a problem was when I went from 1450 to 880 during the week to 780 to what would have been around 500. Not as much flux but just not enough T.

Success stories are great, and one size doesn't fit all, and all practitioners are not going to allow practices they aren't used to prescribing.

I could be wrong but it seems to me that you are more interested in promoting your particular regimen than in someone else finding success in a way they are comfortable with.

I inject twice a week and I wouldn't recommend that as my preference is once a week, but that is biased by my experience and particular reservations amd intuitions.

The jury may still be out on our current protocols as a year or more from now, we may feel the need to make adjustments, ie. twice a week my not work for me and EOD may not feel the same to others. All we can do is plug away, test frequently enough, and monitor our response, but it seems to me we shouldn't nudge anyone towards a particular method when they are quite pleased with the success they and their practitioner have arrived at.

Bob

Bob;
You just do what makes you feel good.

By now, using multiple testing you have figured out your optimal dosing.
Stay on that dosing.
Just remember to pay less attention to very high or very low readings on future individual blood draws.
From your past experience you know that you are constantly on a large rollercoaster.
If you ever again really want to figure out your androgens, just repeat your daily blood draws and take average. Draw blood daily over whole cycle, average your results.
.
.

[Wise Guy]

I would make a joke about bringing some extra Genotropin for you but the last time I did something like that some guys thought I was being serious. I catch some off guard that way. You can look at it though if we can get together next week, although you have your sights set on the other protocol.

After 17 days I tested the IGF-1 again and it was at 312 with 1.8 ius. The last time it dropped to 235 although at Quest it was 310 half an hour later, so I think possibly it is more like 350 to 370 at Quest. 1.2 to 1.8 has to make a difference. I am calling the dogs off if it settles at that level.

Yes, recovery from hiking would likely be enhanced by raising your GH.

She gave me the Sermorelin too so she is not against trying different things, but I haven't gotten her to okay Hydergine but I haven't brought it up lately and might again when we seal the deal on the hormones.

The process of bringing up HGH and receiving at at home was seamless.

She would probably be interested in Doctor John's new protocol but I'd have to be reimbursed for that and that is far from an automatic experience, with HGH it is just a phone call. To be honest with you, the ease of acquiring the HGH and having it covered appeals to me. I don't relish following up on claim forms filed that are not found and redoing it and spending days on the phone.

The HGH is probably at 6.5 months so I should be starting to see something soon. I'll keep an eye on developments though concerning Sermorelin and GHRP-6.

Bob

Man that is so cool on how easy you get GH. Lucky you. :thumbup:

Yea, i can't wait to grab a beer and shoot the sh!t with ya!

As far as my GHRT goes, I will be seeing Dr J soon, really soon. This summer. I have some dental work to be taken care of and paid for first

I will let him handle it whichever way I see fit.

I'm a business man first, and I will delegate and outsource out work every chance I get, including my health care - Thats why I pay Dr J. He can manage it for me :biggrin:

[00slotiv]

Bob;
You just do what makes you feel good.

By now, using multiple testing you have figured out your optimal dosing.
Stay on that dosing.
Just remember to pay less attention to very high or very low readings on future individual blood draws.
From your past experience you know that you are constantly on a large rollercoaster.
If you ever again really want to figure out your androgens, just repeat your daily blood draws and take average. Draw blood daily over whole cycle, average your results.
.
.

JanSz, since I am on a Wednesday/Saturday T schedule now, I drew this T on Friday night at 57 hours (out of 84). Past experience has me topping out somewhere on Thursday night and in all likelihood being lowest at the time of the Saturday night injection.

This way I expect that maybe half of the short period it is at or above the tops and maybe half of the short period it is below the tops.

The E2 I am waiting for was drawn on Thursday and Friday, the two days in the middle of the testosterone injections. I think I will average that out. It will be interesting to see since I suspect it may have been a little high but nothing would surprise me LOL.

The eventual goal is to just do all the testing on Friday after work for everything. One draw from one lab, although I am still a little partial to the one that isn't Quest just because I have used it for the last nine years.

Bob

[00slotiv]

Man that is so cool on how easy you get GH. Lucky you. :thumbup:

Yea, i can't wait to grab a beer and shoot the sh!t with ya!

As far as my GHRT goes, I will be seeing Dr J soon, really soon. This summer. I have some dental work to be taken care of and paid for first

I will let him handle it whichever way I see fit.

I'm a business man first, and I will delegate and outsource out work every chance I get, including my health care - Thats why I pay Dr J. He can manage it for me :biggrin:

Wise Business Man, I told her I didn't want to get her in trouble because many hormone doctors refuse to prescribe it but I think many were prescribing it for guys that could afford it and couldn't produce evidence they were experiencing early signs of aging.

Osteopenia at (then) 46 I think is uncommon for a man, my T levels had nose dived and all my lower back discs are shot not to mention three knee surgerys and the shoulder surgery I just had. My IGF-1 was 126.

At any rate, she was confident she wasn't risking her career and didn't blink in getting it. We looked up Genotropin information on the Pfizer website, thought the miniquick would be easy to use, checked their insert for a good starting dose and called it in. She thinks it is so user friendly she wants to use it for other people.

Lucky, blessed, yup, all that.

It will be a big day for you to delve into GHRT kid, I am almost as excited as you are for that. No one can say you haven't done your homework and the fact you are relatively close to his office makes it even better!

A quick question for you while it is on my mind. I read over and over again how HGH can take six months or longer to hit it's stride so I haven't been in a hurry to expect results. Would you agree with this? How would the new protocol match up?

Thanks.

Not too much beer now, I don't want to ruin the new svelte figure doctor John is going to sculpt.

Bob

[asdf]

Do you think you get a good reading on where your TT level is by not dosing the HCG as you normally would. I'd be willing to bet your levels with the HCG would probably put you well over 1200 ng/dl on those days; with a weekly average probably over 1000. I was just wondering if you are getting a real picture of where all your levels are with this testing protocol.

[00slotiv]

Do you think you get a good reading on where your TT level is by not dosing the HCG as you normally would. I'd be willing to bet your levels with the HCG would probably put you well over 1200 ng/dl on those days; with a weekly average probably over 1000. I was just wondering if you are getting a real picture of where all your levels are with this testing protocol.

When I was using 500 iu of HCG three times a week, taking it the day before a blood test resulted in T being at least 250 ng/dl higher (had pushed it over the top of the reference range so I don't know where it would have settled).

Hard to know what effect the 250 ius would have the next day. HCG on Thursday morning, blood taken on Friday night maybe it goes up 150 to 200?

If it went up 200 it would be up 1080 total and Bioavailable would max out too so I'd have a full tank. Maybe 250ius of HCG wouldn't raise T that much by the next day. I don't want or need more than that. CBC, metabolic, thyroid, cholesterol, blood pressure, etc...have all been the best they have been in a year and a half so I appear to be tolerating it. So far so good.

There is only one way to find out. Now you have me considering taking advantage of the LEF blood test sale to find out for 75 dollars. The Labcorp they use was very consistent with the lab I usually use for T when I used it once so I will have to think about it.

Bob

[Wise Guy]

A quick question for you while it is on my mind. I read over and over again how HGH can take six months or longer to hit it's stride so I haven't been in a hurry to expect results. Would you agree with this? How would the new protocol match up?

Thanks.

Not too much beer now, I don't want to ruin the new svelte figure doctor John is going to sculpt.

Bob

Yep, that is what i have read as well, 6 months for changes to really start to occur on a cellular level.

However, in the mean time the increased deep, REM sleep should be fascilitating needed repairs. The increased improvement in sleep should be immediate.

I would expect the GH booster protocol to take a bit longer.

I would expect that fat loss via manipulation of Leptin and other factors to be the last thing to come, and the hardest.

Of course, such is the par for life, isn't it. :biggrin:

[00slotiv]

Yep, that is what i have read as well, 6 months for changes to really start to occur on a cellular level.

However, in the mean time the increased deep, REM sleep should be fascilitating needed repairs. The increased improvement in sleep should be immediate.

I would expect the GH booster protocol to take a bit longer.

I would expect that fat loss via manipulation of Leptin and other factors to be the last thing to come, and the hardest.

Of course, such is the par for life, isn't it. :biggrin:

Wise Guy,

My rotator cuff is healing remarkable well 13 weeks post surgery and has felt like new for the last month. My other one is torn with a torn labrum but the T and GH should help there too.

Sleep, well the nocturnal erections should be the lowest total in 70 weeks this week which I sure hope means I am staying asleep longer.

It was most definitely not this way after surgery 13 weeks ago in fact the totals was the highest. The HGH went up to 1.8 ius 6 X per week three weeks ago and magically the nocturnal erections have gone down.

I am inclined to attribute this to the HGH as I feel I wake up a couple less times a night. Heretofore I have not been able to pin any benefit yet with it but it is six months and the dose is higher.

No fat loss as far as I can tell but I have gained 7-8 pounds the last three weeks despite walking the most I have in years (since I am home). During this time I started being allowed to lift 2 to 3 pounds weights four times a day and do bicep curls with 3 pounds. The HGH went up during the last month but it would be hard to believe it mixed with those light weights to actually put on weight but there it is.

Glad you mentioned how even the new protocol will take some time. I think some people give up on HGH thinking it will work as fast as T but that is not it's nature.

Bob

[may19th2001]

That is very good you have found a very helpful practioner who cares and wants to help. It is indeed hard to fine practioners who care or even understand or want to understand.

Sounds like you are on a good path.


Chilln, she has been very amenable to my perceived needs, which I presented on the first visit and gently but firmly mention about every visit. Each visit is an attempt to take a step forward. I communicate with her enough without trying to be a nuisance.

It is funny you mention someone else in the region because yesterday I was told that since no one else within 50 miles offers the very same treatment protocol (I was adamant that Anastrozole, HGH, T injections and HCG for males be the criteria) BCBS will cover her office visits, even though she is not in network and I don't have out of network insurance.

They said they would call everyone up to see if their services mirrored hers and after three weeks must have relented and decided to cover them. This apparently shows how few hormone practitioners, and there are plenty of them around here, don't use these methods. I bet they gave it the college try but were found wanting. So BCBS deserves a hearty :thumbup: after ten months of inexpressible frustration at times.

I have tried to steer people her way but for some reason interest is low but I will keep trying. She is overwrought as it is with patients so I hope she can take something from our experience and help other men. For some reason she isn't sold on HCG being needed to prevent testicular shrinkage but she is willing to prescribe it.

If the cat gets too far out of the bag the insurance company wouldn't cover her on account of someone else (without the developed relationship) having the same strategies. She rescued me when I got booted to the curb by the first person and had nowhere to go so I will remain fiercely loyal to her.

I think she is wearying of the volatile E2 results and may settle on guaging dosing exclusively on symtoms on this assay, which has been a pain in the assay.

After we sniffed each other out for over a year we have the kind of relationship that I sought-total transparency with her with my goals, symptoms, changes, not straight jacketing me with cookie cutter doses, and being willing to run a wide variety of tests.

Sometimes I wonder if she shakes her head when I show her parts of my journal but I wanted someone who takes me seriously and she has even expressed satisfaction when things are going well so I am definitely not a number to her. Where is that "pinching myself" emoticon?

I ask a lot of this nurse practitioner because she can help me achieve a state of being that takes full advantage of HRT. Like the song says, she's close enough to perfect for me. :thumbup1:

She deserves her props. I caught her as she was riding the wave of wanting to devote much more time to this field so looking for "someone on the way up" may be a means to finding a practitioner if someone asks around. She was singled out by a pharmacist I asked for help from.

Bob

[00slotiv]

That is very good you have found a very helpful practioner who cares and wants to help. It is indeed hard to fine practioners who care or even understand or want to understand.

Sounds like you are on a good path.

Yes, it will be good to stop thinking about test results, one of these days. Hopefully around the corner.

Bob