Bloodwork - looking for help/feedback please (possible TRT candidate)

[Ev_nyc]

(just a note - posting recent bloodwork taken 2 months apart, not on TRT)

So I just got new bloodwork as I was missing a few things on the last. Well it seems they also forgot to test a couple things this time around too (DHT) but I have an appointment with an endo in a month or two and will go over it then. Am strongly considering Dr. John's services and am hoping I can get some good help with this soon.

Some things are looking good (DHEA went up but overall I still feel the same)...and overall I'm still unhappy and thinking that TRT/HRT is in the near future...Problem is, do I wait till I have kids before choosing this path? Will I even be able to have kids after choosing TRT/HRT? That's my main concern at this point of the game. I guess frozen samples are an option at the moment as well before starting or right when starting TRT (if TRT is necessary - that's my main question).

Here are my old results:

Tests: (3) Lipid Panel

Cholesterol, Total 132 mg/dL 100-199
Tryglycerides 42 mg/dL 0-149
HDL Cholesterol 59 mg/dL 40-59
! VLDL Cholesterol 8 mg/dL 5-40
LDL Cholesterol 65 mg/dL 0-99


Test: (4) Testosterone, Free and Total

! Testosterone, Serum 381 ng/dL 241-827
Free Testosterone (Direct) 10.5 pg/mL 9.3-26.5

Test: (5) Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate

DHEA-Sulfate [L] 196 ug/dL 280-640




Here are my new results (taken 2 months after previous):



Testosterone, Free and Total

! Testosterone, Serum 310 ng/dL 241-827
Free Testosterone (Direct) 11.6 pg/mL 9.3-26.5

Dehydroepiandrosterone

DHEA 718 ng/dL 208-771

Estradiol

Estradiol, Sensitive 24 pg/mL 3-70

Prolactin

Prolactin 5.3 ng/mL 2.1-17.7

Cortisol

Cortisol (am) 18.0 ng/dL 3.1-22.4

SHBG

SHBG 21.0 nmol/L 13-71



Some feedback on me: been diagnosed with depression several times. Experience ED from time to time (intermittent - good days and bad days but bad days outweight the good - where I can start off strong and then just like lose interest it seems in the act)...since an early age too...Libido is up and down, always has been, and for a long time now it takes me a very very long time to reach climax during sex. Ever since I discovered liquid-cialis and products like Aspire, I have been using them consistenly as a crutch now.

The depression has pretty much always been around. Taken effexor XR before...went off it after 2 years, recently got a script for Welbutrin till I can sort out what's going on hormonally with me. I haven't filled the welbutrin script yet but will be doing so this week. Hopefully it will rid some of the depression and give me a libido boost. Also taking a very high dose of resveratrol and nettle root for some increased test and free test at the moment... I can post my current dosages. Other current supplements include Relora, Ashwaganda, Schizandra (to help try to balance things, started this 1-2 months ago).


Also wanted to note, energy levels cause me to have always turned to a high caffeine diet. I am visiting a sleep clinic soon because I definately have a sleeping disorder... I wake up 10-20 times per night. Weather it be insomnia or sleep apnea is unknown yet. Finally fed up with not being fully healthy and want to take care of everything. The one main thing holding me back from TRT/HRT in the future would be fertility / risk of going sterile. Something I don't want to risk, and hopefully wouldn't have to if I start taking HCG and/or HMG while on TRT as well (if TRT is deemed necessary).

I will dig up my Comprehensive Metabolic Panel and post that up in a moment as well. Thanks for any input on all this!

[Ev_nyc]

PS: never taken steroids. I did one prohormone cycle with a very strong PCT, based around Nolvadex (40,40,20,10) and 6oxo extreme. I didn't feel different after the cycle than I did before. I've never really completely felt shutdown ever. Libido is up and down though, always has been.

One thing that I've read may be the cause of the problem: several previous head injuries.
I've been pretty extreme in some of the sports that I play. Been knocked out several times, high-impact while skiing when I was very young (hit HARD by oncoming skiier) and also snowboarding with no helmet for several years. I've had injuries that put me out for the season, hitting the back of my head, front of my head, face etc. Beat myself up pretty good.

Also, depression seems to run in my family, and I think my mother may have hormonal problems (according to my father).

That should be enough background on me. I think.

[Ev_nyc]

Here was the full bloodwork that belongs with the first one I posted. Since then, my test has dropped down to 310 which has me a lil worried...it's getting pretty low, no idea why it's dropping either.


Test: (1) CBC With Differential/Platelet

WBC 6.3 x10E3/uL 4.0-10.5
RBC 5.01 x10E6/uL 4.10-5.60
Hemoglobin 15.2 g/dL 12.5-17.0
Hematocrit 45.7% 36.0-50.0
MCV 91 fL 80-98
MCH 30.3 pg 27.0-34.0
MCHC 33.2 g/dL 32.0-36.0
RDW [H] 15.1% 11.7-15.0
Platelets 260 x10E3/uL 140-415
Neutrophils 55% 40-74
Lymphs 34% 14-46
Monocytes 7% 4-13
Eos 4% 0-7
Basos 0% 0-3

Neutrophils (absolute) 3.5 x10E3/uL 1.8-7.8
Lymphs (absolute) 2.1 x10E3/uL 0.7-4.5
Monocytes (absolute) 0.4 x10E3/uL 0.1-1.0
Eos (absolute) 0.3 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4
Baso (absolute) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2


Tests: (2) Comp. Metabolic Panel

Glucose, Serum 84 mg/dL 65-99
BUN 20 mg/dL 5-26
Creatinine, Serum 1.0 mg/dL 0.5-1.5
Bun/Creatinine Ratio 20 8-27
Sodium, Serum 141 mmol/L 135-148
Potassium, Serum 4.9 mmol/L 3.5-5.5
Chloride, Serum 104 mmol/L 96-109
Carbon Dioxide, Total 29 mmol/L 20-32
Calcium, Serum 9.2 mg/dL 8.5-10.6

Protein, Total, Serum 6.9 g/dL 6.0-8.5
Albumin, Serum 4.4 g/dL 3.5-5.5
! Globulin, Total 2.5 g/dL 1.5-4.5
A/G Ratio 1.8 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin, Total 0.3 mg/dL 0.1-1.2
Alkaline Phospatase, S 82 IU/L 25-150

AST (SGOT) 26 IU/L 0-40
ALT (SGPT) 28 IU/L 0-55


Tests: (3) Lipid Panel

Cholesterol, Total 132 mg/dL 100-199
Tryglycerides 42 mg/dL 0-149
HDL Cholesterol 59 mg/dL 40-59
! VLDL Cholesterol 8 mg/dL 5-40
LDL Cholesterol 65 mg/dL 0-99


Test: (4) Testosterone, Free and Total

! Testosterone, Serum 381 ng/dL 241-827
Free Testosterone (Direct) 10.5 pg/mL 9.3-26.5

Test: (5) Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate

DHEA-Sulfate [L] 196 ug/dL 280-640


Test: (6) Vitamin B12 and Folate

Vitamin B12 [H] 1359 pg/mL 211-911
Folate (Folic Acid), Serum 20.1 ng/mL >5.4


Test: (7) TSH

TSH 2.582 uIU/mL 0.350-5.500

Test: (8) Thyroxine (T4)

Thyroxine (T4) [L] 4.4 ug/dL 4.5-12.0

[Ev_nyc]

Forgot to mention my age as well, I'm 29 yrs old..turning 30 this week though :D

I do realize that a portion of this can be due to diet and possible over-training. But I have to comment that I have only been working out consistently for the past year...and these symptoms listed above have been going on for very many years now.

[phatkid77]

yep, see doctor John.. im 30yr old and currently starting HRT, you are too young for those levels, and Dr J, realizes that, even tho it shows "normal"

good luck..

phats

[kincaiddave]

I would focus somewhat on thyroid issues. Is that T4 number free T4? That T4 reading and your TSH is what makes me ask this. Your low T can be caused by hypothyroidism. I would have free T3 and free T4 tested. Do you have other hypothyroid symptoms? I'm just kicking things off - the experts will be more help.

[Nemesis]

I had levels as yours and felt like crap. I mention that to tell you it is normal to feel like crap at your age with your levels. Your body possibly can not keep up with your activity level. I started treatment and now feel great. See a good endo or Just go for the best and see Dr. Crisler. No need to worry about fertility as HCG will take care of that if you are not already sterile.

[pmgamer18]

You sure do have a lot going on here with your DHEA so low and your TSH over 2. I would test your Thyroid and only get this test done. TSH, Free T3, Free T4,Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.),Ferritin (and do stress FERRITIN, not just RBC)And an ACTH stimulation this test measures how well your adrenals can respond to stress by testing the amount of cortisol the adrenals produce after being stimulated by synthetic form of ACTH. If you thyroid is low and you start on Armour you need to know your adrenals work good you need cortisol to carry the med. for your thyroid out of your blood into your cells. I you don't have enough this will make you feel ill, hives, chest pains, high heart beat and so on.

You would feel much better getting your Testosterone levels up higher. But first you need to find out why your low fixing the why can bring your levels back up.

A Good Dr. like Dr. John would be a big help here.

[Wise Guy]

Im similar to you.

Sky high DHEA and mid range T/FT(although my TT and FT was a tad bit higher)

Dr John mentioned something about adrenal fatigue

I think that E2 needs to be ultrasensitive :confused:

Were all new to this :)

[hardasnails1973]

The problem with ultrasensitive is that some labs have it 13-54 and other have it <29. The <29 does indicate that it can be used for a male, but the problem is that it is so new they do not have any results to compare it to. in the future I sure it will be the gold standard for testing. What i would like to see with this testing is that it is done side by side with the oringal e2 test 13-54 range and to see the comparison of results with about 2000 test to see what would be considered optimal range for a male. Many problem I have had with e2 in the past was that i be on hcg , armidex and after about 25 to 26 days I would have blood drawn and show up low e2. Dr's would take me off armidex and have blood drawn again and be like 15 days into a fresh bottle of hcg and my e2 would be at 56. This baffled the drs when all protocol was kept normal except reducing armidex. I made the discovery that when the blood was being drawn in relationship to hcg was the primary cause of the problem. soon hopefully have blood drawn on a fresh bottle of hcg with armidex at the same time to get a true reading.

[Charlie]

The "indo system" is a marvelous and complicated thing and very few Dr's understand it enough to be of any help to you.

Dr. John is considered to be one of the very best.

My advice would be, "make an appointment".

[Ev_nyc]

Im similar to you.

Sky high DHEA and mid range T/FT(although my TT and FT was a tad bit higher)

Dr John mentioned something about adrenal fatigue

I think that E2 needs to be ultrasensitive :confused:

Were all new to this :)

I think my DHEA has risen due to the Relora I am taking, which is known to raise DHEA levels by over 200% via studies. My previous DHEA levels were below normal, so I started Relora and a nice adaptogenic routine, also trying to heal my adrenals somewhat.

What I need is new bloodwork in a few weeks I think, and retest my thyroid, adrenals, test, estradiol, etc...and then use the complete bloodwork to see how everything is now and diagnose from that. My doctor did not test my thyroid in my last bloodwork that was posted. I should do the proper testing this time around too.

[pmgamer18]

Yes this sounds like a good plain.

I think my DHEA has risen due to the Relora I am taking, which is known to raise DHEA levels by over 200% via studies. My previous DHEA levels were below normal, so I started Relora and a nice adaptogenic routine, also trying to heal my adrenals somewhat.

What I need is new bloodwork in a few weeks I think, and retest my thyroid, adrenals, test, estradiol, etc...and then use the complete bloodwork to see how everything is now and diagnose from that. My doctor did not test my thyroid in my last bloodwork that was posted. I should do the proper testing this time around too.

[Ev_nyc]

The "indo system" is a marvelous and complicated thing and very few Dr's understand it enough to be of any help to you.

Dr. John is considered to be one of the very best.

My advice would be, "make an appointment".


Definately will be trying to set one up for the new yr / January if there's space.


On a side note, with such low test scores, I am completely baffled why I have some of the signs of high-androgens in my system...specifically acne on my back...which has now been more amplified by my current daily dosing of 3600mg of trans-resveratrol 50&#37; as well as high quality nettle root. The back acne existed before but to a much smaller degree, but I guess this also proves that the trans-res is actually doing a good job of boosting my current test as well (which could also mean I am secondary). (btw, whenever I have done bloodwork, I had stopped taking most supps for a number of days prior - to get clean unskewed results). For my next tests I will have to stop for several weeks before testing I think..just to be sure they are not skewed from supplementation (unless asked not to).

[raynman]

I think my DHEA has risen due to the Relora I am taking, which is known to raise DHEA levels by over 200&#37; via studies. My previous DHEA levels were below normal, so I started Relora and a nice adaptogenic routine, also trying to heal my adrenals somewhat.

What I need is new bloodwork in a few weeks I think, and retest my thyroid, adrenals, test, estradiol, etc...and then use the complete bloodwork to see how everything is now and diagnose from that. My doctor did not test my thyroid in my last bloodwork that was posted. I should do the proper testing this time around too.

What is the effect that Relora is supposed to have? For some reason i remember it being a cortisol lowering supp. Would this be recommended for someone with possibly slow adrenals?

[Ev_nyc]

Relora was shown in studies to raise DHEA over 227&#37; and lower cortisol by 37%. I thought it would be good for me since my morning cortisol is on the higher end (18) and my DHEA was very low in my initial bloodwork this past fall. Schizandra I think is the herb of choice for supporting adrenals though, from what I've read, but Relora is also great.

"studies have shown that Relora&#174; has the ability to balance the adrenal hormones, cortisol and DHEA, moving them away from a stress profile to more healthy levels"

http://www.ei-resource.org/illness-information/related-conditions/treatment-for-adrenal-fatigue%10adrenal-exhuastion/

[pmgamer18]

Well I read your link and it scares the crap out of me. If one has low cortisol levels because there Adrenals are over worked most of whats in this link over work them. Even the things in the book "Adrenal Fatiuge the 21st. Century" the supplements in this book made my low cortisol worse. Doing glands you have no idea whats in them some are full of adrenaline this makes you feel worse.

What worked for me was to go on Cortef because my lowest time is in the morning I take 10mgs when I wake at 5am then I do my T and HCG shots and take my Armour and go back to bed. Now when I wake at 8am I feel good I eat and take 5mgs more of Cortef then again at 1pm and at 6pm this keeps me going for the day. Your trying to bring down your Cortisol levels in the morning and 18 is not high the top if the range was 25 for a blood test and the labs lower it. You need your levels highest first thing in the morning. I stoped most of the supplements listed in the link because they make my heart race and drive up my BP.

Here is a good link to a FAQ's from STTM site.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

Relora was shown in studies to raise DHEA over 227% and lower cortisol by 37%. I thought it would be good for me since my morning cortisol is on the higher end (18) and my DHEA was very low in my initial bloodwork this past fall. Schizandra I think is the herb of choice for supporting adrenals though, from what I've read, but Relora is also great.

"studies have shown that Relora® has the ability to balance the adrenal hormones, cortisol and DHEA, moving them away from a stress profile to more healthy levels"

http://www.ei-resource.org/illness-information/related-conditions/treatment-for-adrenal-fatigue%10adrenal-exhuastion/

[Ev_nyc]

Relora is a relaxant though..for me it chills me right out and does not act as a stimulant at all. I think this is how it acts on cortisol, via reducing stress (through relaxation). It doesn't affect cortisol very much though, moreseo on dhea, which it greatly increases. You think that relora can be putting the adrenals into overdrive? I guess it's possible, but how can it do this if it acts by relaxing the individual and helping to lower anxiety?

The other products on my link I don't know much about.

[pmgamer18]

Well I have been at this some time now and read Dr. Jefferies book Safe uses of Cortisol. The best way to get your adrenals to heal is to take HC or Cortef this supports them so they can heal. I have no Idea what this is doing.

[JanSz]

Do blood test at Quest Diagnostics and two tests at Genova Diagnostics.

Blood test list is on post #44
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

Genova tests:
Links to them olso in above post.

NutriEval
Estroessence

get videos and study them, they describe how the Genova tests work.

===========================
You will need willing doctor to go along with you.
Dr John may be the one.

=============================
============================================
The videos cost $20 each
http://www.prolibraries.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
NutrEval discussed
EW04 - NUTRITIONAL EVALUATION: Understanding Your Patient's Supplement Needs
http://www.prolibraries.com/a4m/?select=session&sessionID=565
A4M :: Conference Library
Conference: A4M Las Vegas 2006
Speaker: Patrick Hanaway, MD
December 7, 2006 6:00 pm - 9:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Estroessence discussed:

GS02m - Estrogen Metabolism: Modifying Risk in Clinical Practice
Conference: A4M Orlando 2006
Speaker: Patrick Hanaway MD
Length: 31m 07s - 66 Slides
April 9, 2006 5:00 pm - 5:40 pm
--------------------------------------------------