Recently Increased T Dosage

[ZonaDave]

just a little background information. this was the schedule my doc had me on to start with:

Sat - 250IU of HCG
Sun - 250IU of HCG
Mon - 100mg Test Cyp.

this was my first blood test after being on that schedule for 2 months:
TT: 829 (Range 262-1593)
FT: 20.6 (Range 7.2-23.0)
Estradiol: 59 (Range 0-56)

we added Anastrozole to the mix as follows:
Sat - 250IU of HCG
Sun - 250IU of HCG
Mon - 100mg Test Cyp. & .75mg Anstrozole
Thu - .75mg Anstrozole

i got tested again a month later:
TT: 638 (range = 280-800)
FT: 10.8 (range = 1.4-12.6)
E2: 26.1 (range = 7.6-42.6)

felt good but still had low libido/ED with these levels.


i'm prone to convert T-E so i split my shots per week and here's my current TRT schedule:
Mon - .5mg Anastrozole & 60mg of Test Cyp. (Morning Shot)
Tue – nothing
Wed – .5mg Anastrozole & 250IU of HCG
Thu – 60mg of Test Cyp. (Evening Shot)
Fri – .5mg Anastrozole & B12 Shot
Sat - nothing
Sun - 250IU of HCG

i was still having low libido and ED issues so about a month ago i bumped my dose up to two 100mg shots/week and i felt great. i had good libido, little ED, slept well and i was walking around the house singing...you get the idea. anyway, i was concerned about my E2 going to high so after a few weeks at this dose i dropped it down to where it is now and i felt like shit today. morning wood is soft, had insomnia the past few nights, low lidibo/ED

i'm not sure if my E2 finally caught up to the increased T from last month and is now giving me low libido/ED again, or the decrease in dosage this month is causing problems.

i see alot of guys on here shooting 200mg/week so i'm interested in hearing how that's going for you guys.

anyone else experience the same thing? thanks!

[JanSz]

just a little background information. this was the schedule my doc had me on to start with:

Sat - 250IU of HCG
Sun - 250IU of HCG
Mon - 100mg Test Cyp.

this was my first blood test after being on that schedule for 2 months:
TT: 829 (Range 262-1593)
FT: 20.6 (Range 7.2-23.0)
Estradiol: 59 (Range 0-56)

we added Anastrozole to the mix as follows:
Sat - 250IU of HCG
Sun - 250IU of HCG
Mon - 100mg Test Cyp. & .75mg Anstrozole
Thu - .75mg Anstrozole

i got tested again a month later:
TT: 638 (range = 280-800)
FT: 10.8 (range = 1.4-12.6)
E2: 26.1 (range = 7.6-42.6)

felt good but still had low libido/ED with these levels.


i'm prone to convert T-E so i split my shots per week and here's my current TRT schedule:
Mon - .5mg Anastrozole & 60mg of Test Cyp. (Morning Shot)
Tue – nothing
Wed – .5mg Anastrozole & 250IU of HCG
Thu – 60mg of Test Cyp. (Evening Shot)
Fri – .5mg Anastrozole & B12 Shot
Sat - nothing
Sun - 250IU of HCG

i was still having low libido and ED issues so about a month ago i bumped my dose up to two 100mg shots/week and i felt great. i had good libido, little ED, slept well and i was walking around the house singing...you get the idea. anyway, i was concerned about my E2 going to high so after a few weeks at this dose i dropped it down to where it is now and i felt like shit today. morning wood is soft, had insomnia the past few nights, low lidibo/ED

i'm not sure if my E2 finally caught up to the increased T from last month and is now giving me low libido/ED again, or the decrease in dosage this month is causing problems.

i see alot of guys on here shooting 200mg/week so i'm interested in hearing how that's going for you guys.

anyone else experience the same thing? thanks!

What is your DHT

Have you been on transdermals, if yes what was your response to:
TT, E2, DHT

If you have a basis to think that you are secondary, may want to discuss with your doc, trying EOD HCG (250-600)IU as a basis of your TRT program
and latter just top it off any missing BAT.

Think in terms of BAT,
TT is of secondary value.
.
.

[ZonaDave]

What is your DHT

Have you been on transdermals, if yes what was your response to:
TT, E2, DHT

If you have a basis to think that you are secondary, may want to discuss with your doc, trying EOD HCG (250-600)IU as a basis of your TRT program
and latter just top it off any missing BAT.

Think in terms of BAT,
TT is of secondary value.
.
.

my first doc put me on 2 tubes of Testim/day and these were the results after a month:

TT: 646 (Range 262-1593)
FT: 10.6 (Range 7.2-23.0)
DHT: 1169.4 (Range 155.0-553.0)
DHEA: 604 (Range 80-560)
Estradiol: 20 (Range 0-56)
IGF-1: 186 (Range 101-267)

my first doc didn't run all the required initial tests so i'm not sure if i was primary or secondary.

[JanSz]

my first doc put me on 2 tubes of Testim/day and these were the results after a month:

TT: 646 (Range 262-1593)
FT: 10.6 (Range 7.2-23.0)
DHT: 1169.4 (Range 155.0-553.0)
DHEA: 604 (Range 80-560)
Estradiol: 20 (Range 0-56)
IGF-1: 186 (Range 101-267)

my first doc didn't run all the required initial tests so i'm not sure if i was primary or secondary.

Looks like average response to transdermal T,
that is

high DHT
E2 not affected
--------------------

That is good news if you learn from that experience.

frequent T-shots (most likely) will not increase your E2
E2 is (kind of) low, good news, you have extra margin when trying to get the most out of HCG shots. At certain dose they tend to increase E2, but not below it. 250iu EOD is a good point to start investigation.

good chance at (HCG + T) theraphy without Arimidex
if you lucky, you may not need T either.

IFG-1 may raise also when you are properly tuned.
Do not change your DHEAs
---------
..

[medgerton]

my first doc put me on 2 tubes of Testim/day and these were the results after a month:

TT: 646 (Range 262-1593)
FT: 10.6 (Range 7.2-23.0)
DHT: 1169.4 (Range 155.0-553.0)
DHEA: 604 (Range 80-560)
Estradiol: 20 (Range 0-56)
IGF-1: 186 (Range 101-267)

my first doc didn't run all the required initial tests so i'm not sure if i was primary or secondary.

If you get a good response from HCG then your testes are producing. This would eliminate the primary diagnosis. I know it is hard to know if it is the HCG or Test shot that is producing your TT level. If you go the route of increased HCG and lower Test and still have good TT then you will know the answer.

[ZonaDave]

thanks for your help guys, i appreciate the input!

[ZonaDave]

my doc investigated pituitary and everything checked out ok.

will the increase in HCG drive my E2 higher?

[ZonaDave]

Looks like average response to transdermal T,
that is

high DHT
E2 not affected
--------------------

That is good news if you learn from that experience.

frequent T-shots (most likely) will not increase your E2
E2 is (kind of) low, good news, you have extra margin when trying to get the most out of HCG shots. At certain dose they tend to increase E2, but not below it. 250iu EOD is a good point to start investigation.

good chance at (HCG + T) theraphy without Arimidex
if you lucky, you may not need T either.

IFG-1 may raise also when you are properly tuned.
Do not change your DHEAs
---------
..

those were my results when i was on 2 tubes of Testim/day. i'm on Test Cyp now and these are my latest results:

TT: 638 (range = 280-800)
FT: 10.8 (range = 1.4-12.6)
E2: 26.1 (range = 7.6-42.6)
SHBG: 21 (range = 7-50)
DHEA: 138.6 (range = 88.9-427.0)
Cortisol: 12.0 (range = 6.2-19.4)

[JanSz]

those were my results when i was on 2 tubes of Testim/day. i'm on Test Cyp now and these are my latest results:

TT: 638 (range = 280-800)
FT: 10.8 (range = 1.4-12.6)
E2: 26.1 (range = 7.6-42.6)
SHBG: 21 (range = 7-50)
DHEA: 138.6 (range = 88.9-427.0)
Cortisol: 12.0 (range = 6.2-19.4)

From the chart your FreeT~170
You are at the beginning of good range,
DHEAs falled down from previous 604, get it back up.
You should have tested DHT.


my doc investigated pituitary and everything checked out ok.

will the increase in HCG drive my E2 higher?

When HCG raises your E2 that mean you using too much of it.

There is a balancing process, hard to do it right the first time, specially that you have so many variables.

You and your doc have to pick a way and slowly chug toward good balance.
================================================== ====

[chilln]

I'm on Test Cyp now and these are my latest results:

TT: 638 (range = 280-800)
FT: 10.8 (range = 1.4-12.6)
E2: 26.1 (range = 7.6-42.6)
SHBG: 21 (range = 7-50)
DHEA: 138.6 (range = 88.9-427.0)
Cortisol: 12.0 (range = 6.2-19.4)

Were these results taken when your symptoms were good (eg: singing, etc..) or less-than-optimal ?

[ZonaDave]

Were these results taken when your symptoms were good (eg: singing, etc..) or less-than-optimal ?

i was feeling ok at the time of that test but still had low libido and ED.

i felt like crap on saturday and worse yesterday! not to mention that the cardinals didn't win!

dropping down to 120mg/week was a bad move. i got all my old symptoms back (low libido, ED, fatique, anxiety, insomnia, etc...)

i didn't sleep at all last night and couldn't wait to take a 100mg shot this morning. things should pick up for me this week after my second shot.

i'm amazed at how fast the T got out of my body! a month ago i was on 200mg/week, then a week later i dropped it down to 160mg/week, then last week i dropped it down to 120mg/week and by the end of the week i felt like shit! i'd shoot myself in the head if i had to feel like this all the time...

i felt really...realy good at 200mg/week. things were looking really good, but i didn't want to over do it so i started dropping it down to see how i'd feel. not good:ack2:

[Greenie]

What was your total T level when you were on 200/mg of T per week?

[ZonaDave]

What was your total T level when you were on 200/mg of T per week?

i'm not sure, i haven't been tested at that dose yet. in december i was taking one 100mg shot each week before i took vacation. i didn't want to hassle with taking my T with me and i was going to be gone for 10 days so i took a 140mg shot the day i left. i was horny as hell the next day and for most of the week for that matter...things were good. when i got home i split my shots up semi-weekly (monday & thursday) and bumped it up to 200mg/week to see how i'd feel. pretty much all my symptoms went away. i was in a great mood all the time, slept well, no anxiety, good libido, very little ED, ect...

i should have stayed at that dose for at least a month and got tested but i wanted to be conservative. i didn't want to take a high dose that would give me long term health issues. as long as i have good libido and no ED i'll be happy.

my plan now is to stay with the 200mg/week schedule and not change a thing until i get tested.

[chilln]

my plan now is to stay with the 200mg/week schedule and not change a thing until i get tested.


Good one. Look forward to seeing how your lab metrics look on that schedule.

###

Perhaps you may want to discuss with yoru medical professional adviser, to try (later, not now of course) focusing more attention on HCG.

Eg: perhaps try shifting the balance more towards HCG and less towards injected testosterone ester.

Of course this depends on your testicles ability to produce hormones - and you may have already determined limitations in that area ?

Some of the main benefits of increasing HCG, and decreasing testosterone esters (if your testicles can produce hormones sufficiently as a response), are:

a) you're more in control of your hormone levels, eg: you can inject HCG daily if you choose, while injecting testosterone ester intramuscular tends to be less appealing than HCG SubQ, when intramuscular injection frequency increases.

b) the wide range of testicular produced hormones generated via HCG are more beneficial than the boost to a limited number of hormones which arise from an injection of testosterone ester.

[ZonaDave]

Good one. Look forward to seeing how your lab metrics look on that schedule.

###

Perhaps you may want to discuss with yoru medical professional adviser, to try (later, not now of course) focusing more attention on HCG.

Eg: perhaps try shifting the balance more towards HCG and less towards injected testosterone ester.

Of course this depends on your testicles ability to produce hormones - and you may have already determined limitations in that area ?

Some of the main benefits of increasing HCG, and decreasing testosterone esters (if your testicles can produce hormones sufficiently as a response), are:

a) you're more in control of your hormone levels, eg: you can inject HCG daily if you choose, while injecting testosterone ester intramuscular tends to be less appealing than HCG SubQ, when intramuscular injection frequency increases.

b) the wide range of testicular produced hormones generated via HCG are more beneficial than the boost to a limited number of hormones which arise from an injection of testosterone ester.

thanks for the info chilln!

ever since i started on my new schedule over a month ago i haven't messed with HCG at all. i never really noticed a difference with the HCG but then again i started it right away when my doc put me on shots. together we have never tried changing the schedule but i can discuss it with her. here's my current schedule:

Mon - .5mg Anastrozole & 100mg of Test Cyp. (Morning Shot)
Tue – nothing
Wed – .5mg Anastrozole & 250IU of HCG
Thu – 100mg of Test Cyp. (Evening Shot)
Fri – .5mg Anastrozole & B12 Shot
Sat - nothing
Sun - 250IU of HCG

i realize that 200mg/week is alot and i'm sure it will keep me well over the top of the range at all times. i'm not interested in doing a "mini" cycle and i don't want to do any long-term damage to my health. my priority has always to get my libido back and fix ED. my guess is that 200mg/week will drive my E2 up but i can stay like that for a month until i can get some bloodwork.

looking back, i probably screwed up by dropping my T dosage too fast which i'm sure is the reason why i felt like shit the last few days. that change should have been made over months vs. weeks. i took a 100mg shot on monday morning and i'm feeling better today. last night i got some night sweats...lol

i'm getting all the symptoms i had when i first started TRT. i'd like to get by with less T even if that means changing my HCG dosage a little.

from my current schedule above, what would you recommend? i'm meeting with my doc this week so we can chat about a possible change.

[hardasnails1973]

i am finding that when you go past your biological sweet spot that you tend to cause other alterations to other hormones. So these people with 450 testosterone and are in great shape , good muscle tone, having great sex, wood that would never die. Why would some one want to mess with what is biological set for that person. If a person starts having low T symptoms then I would warrant further investigation. I had this huge naturally body builder tested not a drug in his life and total T was only 450 and mid line bio T, e2 <10. So it some times make me wonder about what is proper for each person and how could altering what is just natural could actually cause other issues

[Randall64]

i am finding that when you go past your biological sweet spot that you tend to cause other alterations to other hormones. So these people with 450 testosterone and are in great shape , good muscle tone, having great sex, wood that would never die. Why would some one want to mess with what is biological set for that person. If a person starts having low T symptoms then I would warrant further investigation. I had this huge naturally body builder tested not a drug in his life and total T was only 450 and mid line bio T, e2 <10. So it some times make me wonder about what is proper for each person and how could altering what is just natural could actually cause other issues

It's a shame we didn't think to have our test-levels checked when we were 25 years-old and everything we ate turned to muscle and we gfelt like a million bucks, everyday.

I'd be curious to know what my test-levels were in my twenties. If they were 850, I could target those numbers again and know my body would be 'happy' with that.

[hardasnails1973]

Why I have been encourage young people i meet in the gym and health field to get checked out by their primary dr to be safe. i have yet to find a health 20-25 year old that fits in these so called ranges. my friend that is a Pro natural bodybuilder had t levels of 600. So all these people at 800-900 may be unnecessary and throwing other systems out of balance. If there free levels or Bio T is low then precedures need to be taken to increase it rather then to increase over all total T

[ZonaDave]

It's a shame we didn't think to have our test-levels checked when we were 25 years-old and everything we ate turned to muscle and we gfelt like a million bucks, everyday.

I'd be curious to know what my test-levels were in my twenties. If they were 850, I could target those numbers again and know my body would be 'happy' with that.

i'm not sure if it works like that. i think part of the problem is the damage that's done over the years as T is dropping. so i'm not sure if simulating the same hormone levels would make you feel any better. afterall, injected T will never be as good as the real thing and a healthy body regulates hormones better than any doctor or weekly schedule ever could.

i didn't know it at the time but i started having low T symptoms almost 10 years ago. the normal symptoms really started having an affect on my work and home life about 4-5 years ago. i've been on TRT for 6 months now so that means alot of damage could have been done in that time frame. like anything else, early detection would have helped alot.

i believe the importance of proper TRT is getting things as balanced as good as you can, eat well, exercise, get rest and let time heal your body.


i am finding that when you go past your biological sweet spot that you tend to cause other alterations to other hormones. So these people with 450 testosterone and are in great shape , good muscle tone, having great sex, wood that would never die. Why would some one want to mess with what is biological set for that person. If a person starts having low T symptoms then I would warrant further investigation. I had this huge naturally body builder tested not a drug in his life and total T was only 450 and mid line bio T, e2 <10. So it some times make me wonder about what is proper for each person and how could altering what is just natural could actually cause other issues

my doc was dating some dude a few years ago that had the libido of an 18 year old. she said he was horny all the time and had zero recover time between orgasms. she assumed his T's were off the charts so out of curioustiy she tested his blood. i don't know what all his levels were but she said his TT was in the mid 300's! funny huh? when i started having pretty bad libido and ED issues my TT was close to 500. i didn't get thorough testing back then so who knows, it could have been something as simple as having high E2. it just goes how individual it is. i mean, just look at the range they give us for TT! as long as you're within 200-1500! wtf is that...lol it's a good thing doctors don't have our body temperatures on a similar scale.

having an open forum like this is great to share experiences but it's also a double edge sword. we read each others TRT schedule and think if we follow what works for an individual will work for us. i use to work for honeywell avaition and we had large test stands that required yearly "correlation". the stands had many "calibrated" devices but they all had to be correlated together as a whole. making changes to one device affected another and so on. sound familiar?

[JanSz]

i am finding that when you go past your biological sweet spot that you tend to cause other alterations to other hormones. So these people with 450 testosterone and are in great shape , good muscle tone, having great sex, wood that would never die. Why would some one want to mess with what is biological set for that person. If a person starts having low T symptoms then I would warrant further investigation. I had this huge naturally body builder tested not a drug in his life and total T was only 450 and mid line bio T, e2 <10. So it some times make me wonder about what is proper for each person and how could altering what is just natural could actually cause other issues

total T was only 450 and mid line bio T, e2 <10.
==========================================

The numbers and formulae that we use here say what you have posted does not add up.

To have TT~450
and
mid range BAT
he will have to have negative SHBG

Something else is at play.

It will be nice to understand it.
===============================================

I am not saying that the guy does not
look good
feel good
have a great sex

I am saying that something else is at play.
===============================================

[ZonaDave]

i'm sure impatience plays a big role in TRT. we've been dealing with symptoms for awhile now and we're finally getting treatment. we want to see results.

we're paying the doctor bills, we're paying for the scripts, we're doing our research and damn it we want to feel better...lol

for most of us it took many years to get here. it's possible that once you get your numbers balanced that it could take several years at that point to see acceptable results. i'm not sure, i've only been doing this for 6 months. i'm trying to be patient but that alone is a challenge.

[hardasnails1973]

total T was only 450 and mid line bio T, e2 <10.
==========================================

The numbers and formulae that we use here say what you have posted does not add up.

To have TT~450
and
mid range BAT
he will have to have negative SHBG

Something else is at play.

It will be nice to understand it.
===============================================

I am not saying that the guy does not
look good
feel good
have a great sex

I am saying that something else is at play.
===============================================


Some times alot of guys are trying to search for something that is not their and are on a holy quest for the grail that never existed in the first place. My freind just tested 425 low free and bio T, but hes strong as a bull and when ask how was his sex life fantastic better then ever he was 31. He said should I be concerned. I told him that if it aint broke do not fix it but if you start to feel the symptoms then get checked out other wise leave it alone.

[ZonaDave]

there will always be exceptions to the rule. i'm sure there are guys out there with high numbers who have symptoms of low T.

TRT hasn't fixed all my symptoms yet but it has fixed quite a few really important ones so it's a good start.

the only thing worse than a guy having sexual problems is feeling like crap at the same time.