Test results in, will you give me feedback?

[random321]

I am 22 year old male
lost 100 pounds 2.5 years ago
probably over trained/overexercised-started feeling bad/falling asleep after exercise
off and on for past 2.5 years
started having allergies to wheat/gluten and digestive problems
severe fatigue/low energy
eat healthy paleo diet with lots of grassfed beef/fish oil and good fats
lots of supplements
can't supplement DHEA right now due to liver sulfation problems- makes me pass out/fall asleep


Recent Labs:
12/22/08 - approx 2PM
Testosterone, Serum 195(241-827 ng/dl)
Free Test(Direct) 5.5(9.3-26.5pg/ml)
Vitamin D25-hydroxy 31 (32-100)
LH 2.7(1.5-9.3)
FSH 3.8(1.4-18.1)
HDL Cholesterol 27(>39)

Previous Labs:
5/12/08 - approx 9:57 AM
Testosterone, Serum 178(241-827 ng/dl)
Free Test(Direct) 4.3(9.3-26.5pg/ml)
DHEA Sulfate 113( 280-640ug/dl)
Cortisol 19.7(3.1-22.4ug/dl)

1/02/08 - approx 9:30 AM
Testosterone, Serum 263(241-827 ng/dl)
Free Test(Direct) 9.5(9.3-26.5pg/ml)
Cortisol 24.6(3.1-22.4)
HDL Cholesterol 36(40-59)

2/20/08 - Morning
Thyroid
Free T4(blood spot) 1.9 (0.7-2.5) ng/dl
Free T3(blood spot) 3.3 (2.5-6.5) pg/ml
TSH(blood spot) 0.8 (0.5-3.0) uU/ml
TPO(blood spot) 9 (0-150) IU/ml

Estradiol(Saliva) <0.5 (0.5-2.2) pg/ml
Progesterone(Saliva) 11L (12-100) pg/ml
Testosterone(Saliva) 82 (72-148(age21)) pg/ml
DHEAS(Saliva) 6.3 (7-23(age21)) ng/ml


Cortisol Morning(Saliva) 12.2H (3.7-9.5) ng/ml
Cortisol Noon(Saliva) 2.1 (1.2-3.0) ng/ml
Cortisol Evening(Saliva) 2.4H (0.6-1.9) ng/ml
Cortisol Night(Saliva) 0.5 (0.4-1.0) ng/ml


2/28/08 - Morning
Free T4(Direct) 1.63 (0.61-1.76) ng/dL
TSH 4.510 (0.350-5.500) uIU/mL
Free T3, Serum 3.4 (2.3-4.2) pg/mL
Ferritin, Serum 226 (22-322) ng/mL



Can you give me feedback as to what this all means as I have not have a doctor give me any clear diagnosis. From the looks of it, am I primary or secondary?
It seems my FREE levels a year ago were twice as high, and I don't have any levels from before that but I think they must have been higher.

Could Low Vitamin D cause my testicles to lose sensitivity to LH?

What do you think the best course of action/treatment would be?

Would it be OK for me to stop some suffering right now and go on TRT with HCG for 3 months to a Year, while getting healthier before attempting some sort of restart?

I have symptoms of adrenal fatigue, would supplementing cortisol help, even though I tend to have high cortisol levels? Would Testosterone keep cortisol from getting too high and help adrenals heal?

When I did a 2 week trial of testim about 2 weeks ago, (my levels got to 630 Total and 16 Free T)I felt a little bit better and lost some weight but overall felt more fatigued/low energy and had a hard time getting an erection which I didn't have before. What caused this?

[chilln]

I am 22 year old male
lost 100 pounds 2.5 years ago

Impressive!





bad/falling asleep after exercise off and on for past 2.5 years

started having allergies to wheat/gluten and digestive problems

severe fatigue/low energy

Recent Labs:
12/22/08 - approx 2PM
Testosterone, Serum 195(241-827 ng/dl)
Free Test(Direct) 5.5(9.3-26.5pg/ml)
Vitamin D25-hydroxy 31 (32-100)


Previous Labs:
5/12/08 - approx 9:57 AM
Testosterone, Serum 178(241-827 ng/dl)
Free Test(Direct) 4.3(9.3-26.5pg/ml)
DHEA Sulfate 113( 280-640ug/dl)

1/02/08 - approx 9:30 AM
Testosterone, Serum 263(241-827 ng/dl)
Free Test(Direct) 9.5(9.3-26.5pg/ml)

DHEAS(Saliva) 6.3 (7-23(age21)) ng/ml

Cortisol Morning(Saliva) 12.2H (3.7-9.5) ng/ml
Cortisol Noon(Saliva) 2.1 (1.2-3.0) ng/ml
Cortisol Evening(Saliva) 2.4H (0.6-1.9) ng/ml
Cortisol Night(Saliva) 0.5 (0.4-1.0) ng/ml



These are the standouts for me. More later...



Can you give me feedback as to what this all means as I have not have a doctor give me any clear diagnosis. From the looks of it, am I primary or secondary?
It seems my FREE levels a year ago were twice as high, and I don't have any levels from before that but I think they must have been higher.

Summary:
High cortisol and low DHEA for most of the day - then crash.
Low free testosterone.

###

No matter how you got there, you've got to get out of there.

The low testosterone is preventing your body from being able to repair itself thoroughly each night.

The top-of-the-range cortisol suppresses testosterone production, and it suppresses testosterone's effectiveness.

A double whammy! That's what causes the tiredness.

###

You do need to reduce your daytime cortisol - not to zero, but to perhaps half way along the reference ranges.

The principal way to do that is to reduce those excess physical and mental stressors. Avoid excess physical and mental stress at all costs until you're healed.

You should first try lots and lots deep sleep, and that may just lower your cortisol on its own - but only if your GH starts to recover too (at your age it should recover).

Rest and relaxation won't really be enough. Lots of deep sleep is what's called for.

You may need to try a short course of PS (phosphatidylserine) but I wouldn't go there until high cortisol proves stubborn.

If your physical and/or mental stressors are high, then lowering cortisol via PS won't improve your health. If your physical and/or mental stressors are high, then using PS to lower your cortisol will make you even more tired during the day.

When your physical and/or mental stressors are high, you need top-of-the-range cortisol just to get through the day, but at the expense of testosterone production and testosterone performance.

###

And micronutritional support is also going to be critical. Especially some digestive enzymes and some probiotics (never at the same time), until your gut recovers and you can gradually reduce your reliance on these, and eventually return to being able to digest almost anything on your own. Try the probiotics last thing before sleep, so they have all night to populate your gut before the enzymes come along and start shredding everything in sight (including probiotics!).

Also, start supplementing with frequent small doses of free radical suppressants. These will help clean up all of the problem molecules which aren't being manufactured properly by your damaged cells. Eg: natural sourced polyphenols.

And of course crank your Vitamin D - do you really need to be advised of this ?



Could Low Vitamin D cause my testicles to lose sensitivity to LH?

No matter what, you should boost vitamin D to at least above half of the reference range, pref higher.



Would it be OK for me to stop some suffering right now and go on TRT with HCG for 3 months to a Year, while getting healthier before attempting some sort of restart?

Worst case scenario only.


I have symptoms of adrenal fatigue, would supplementing cortisol help, even though I tend to have high cortisol levels? Would Testosterone keep cortisol from getting too high and help adrenals heal?

Top-of-the-range cortisol suppresses testosterone production and degrades testosterone's effectiveness. Don't go there.



When I did a 2 week trial of testim about 2 weeks ago, (my levels got to 630 Total and 16 Free T)I felt a little bit better and lost some weight but overall felt more fatigued/low energy and had a hard time getting an erection which I didn't have before. What caused this?

Top-of-the-range cortisol at least.

Possibly also increased estradiol, but you didn't get that measured.

[random321]

Thank you for your response chillin.
I've been on about 2000 IU/Day of D3 for past 2 weeks and now 8000IU/Day for past 3 days. Does that sound like a good dose?

[chilln]

Thank you for your response chillin.
I've been on about 2000 IU/Day of D3 for past 2 weeks and now 8000IU/Day for past 3 days. Does that sound like a good dose?


That's fine. Keep monitoring levels and adjust.

The big deal is to reduce the cortisol levels, which will improve the testosterone levels.

Once again, we initially do this by getting lots of deep sleep and see how that goes.

Can you even get 8 hours continuous sleep per night ? or do you wake a few times ?

Even if you are getting 8 hours continuous deep sleep per night, you may find that your last 1 or 2 hours of sleep are light sleep, because your cortisol will start to rise to top-of-the-reference-range while you're still sleeping, and that is conducive to light sleep, not deep sleep.

When we're fighting fit, we get around 5 or 6 deep sleep cycles per night. You want all 6 deep sleep cycles, and you want them every night, for as long as you can max them out.

[random321]

Thanks for all the advice. I just discovered I'm having an extreme physicall stressor on my body that is probably been keeping cortisol high and wearing out adrenals for the past few 6 months to year. Salicylate allergy/sensitivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylism

I will have to stay on a super strict elimination diet for at least 4 weeks and probably more. I'm already feeling better.

How long after being unstressed will it take for T levels to go up?

[chilln]

Thanks for all the advice. I just discovered I'm having an extreme physicall stressor on my body that is probably been keeping cortisol high and wearing out adrenals for the past few 6 months to year. Salicylate allergy/sensitivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylism

I will have to stay on a super strict elimination diet for at least 4 weeks and probably more. I'm already feeling better.

How long after being unstressed will it take for T levels to go up?


Wow - you and your medical professional advisers are a real team.

It probably takes the best part of a year to really get adrenal recovery, and that assumes you do what it takes to get as much deep sleep as possible.

But if you are able to use supplements to boost where you're too low, and even to occasionally reduce levels where they're too high, then you won't even notice the problem during the recovery phase.

But that sort of supplementation requires many lab tests, with experimentation of the dosing, so if you can't afford the testing and/or the supplements, then you may need to experience a gradual improvement with only the minimum of supplements, and some sleuthing of your symptoms to determine optimal dosing.

[random321]

Wow - you and your medical professional advisers are a real team.

No help from my medical professional advisers on this one. None of them even know what salicylates are, besides aspirin.



It probably takes the best part of a year to really get adrenal recovery, and that assumes you do what it takes to get as much deep sleep as possible.


If it takes a year for them to repair and my test levels to go back to normal, would it be OK to go on TRT with HCG for a year without causing any damage and to help heal my body?



But if you are able to use supplements to boost where you're too low, and even to occasionally reduce levels where they're too high, then you won't even notice the problem during the recovery phase.


Which supplements specifically? And which lab tests?

[chilln]

If it takes a year for them to repair and my test levels to go back to normal, would it be OK to go on TRT with HCG for a year without causing any damage and to help heal my body?


Depends. Could you please address all of my discussion points in my first response.

http://musclechatroom.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31311&postcount=2

[random321]

The principal way to do that is to reduce those excess physical and mental stressors. Avoid excess physical and mental stress at all costs until you're healed.

You should first try lots and lots deep sleep, and that may just lower your cortisol on its own - but only if your GH starts to recover too (at your age it should recover).

Rest and relaxation won't really be enough. Lots of deep sleep is what's called for.

It is hard for me to get a full 8 hour sleep. I usually wake up early or have light sleep toward the end. Sometimes fall back asleep during the day.
It's usually different times every night.







You may need to try a short course of PS (phosphatidylserine) but I wouldn't go there until high cortisol proves stubborn.

If your physical and/or mental stressors are high, then lowering cortisol via PS won't improve your health. If your physical and/or mental stressors are high, then using PS to lower your cortisol will make you even more tired during the day.

When your physical and/or mental stressors are high, you need top-of-the-range cortisol just to get through the day, but at the expense of testosterone production and testosterone performance.



I just tried 300mg of PS in the morning and 300mg ps in afternoon and it made me tired and fall asleep afterwords. one of the days I tried it, it didn't have an effect.

My mental stress is very high. I try to use techniques and sometimes do yoga/meditation to control it , but it seems nearly impossible to control. Is it possible high cortisol causes mental stress?

It is possible there may be other physical stressors that I don't know about.

################################################## ##################################
################################################## ##################################
################################################## ##################################

New results:(forgot about this thread when I made my newer thread)

Here's the scan of the results(including results from a year before.
http://s3.supload.com/free/Lab-Adrenal-3-10-09-20090405102113.jpg/view/

I am on zero supplements right now(and during the latest test) Haven't taken DHEA in over 6 months.

Obviously the high DHEA is an improvement over the low DHEA. But the cortisol is even higher!?

What does this mean? What can I do about it. Please give me your feedback.





You are not yet at the adrenal fatigue stage, but you're headed there.


chillin, wouldn't my tests indicate that I have reversed and gone back a stage in adrenal fatigue? Since my DHEA levels are no longer low, they are too high.

Would that be good news?




Even if you are getting 8 hours continuous deep sleep per night, you may find that your last 1 or 2 hours of sleep are light sleep, because your cortisol will start to rise to top-of-the-reference-range while you're still sleeping, and that is conducive to light sleep, not deep sleep.


This is exactly what happens a lot. How can I fix that?

[random321]

merged by chilln into previous post - they're all related.

[random321]

merged by chilln into previous post - they're all related.

[chilln]

I've re-arranged your responses to suit my logic flow.



My mental stress is very high. I try to use techniques and sometimes do yoga/meditation to control it , but it seems nearly impossible to control.


and



I just tried 300mg of PS in the morning and 300mg ps in afternoon and it made me tired and fall asleep afterwords. one of the days I tried it, it didn't have an effect.



These two show that your mental stress is driving the problem, not the other way around.

Lowering your cortisol put you to sleep. That means your body was still experiencing mental stress when you lowered your cortisol.

When we experience high physical and /or mental stressors, then we need high cortisol to survive.

The high cortisol has a side effect which is to reduce our testicular testosterone production, and reduce the effectiveness of the testosterone which is present.




Is it possible high cortisol causes mental stress?


not in your case, as discussed above.




It is hard for me to get a full 8 hour sleep. I usually wake up early or have light sleep toward the end. Sometimes fall back asleep during the day.
It's usually different times every night.


Your adrenals have to work hard to produce enough cortisol to get you through the day, and they give themselves a head start by cranking up your cortisol so high in the morning that you cannot stay asleep.

Yet you need that high cortisol to curb your mental stressors.

A real "Catch-22".



This is exactly what happens a lot. How can I fix that?


A temporary workaround is to force yourself to stay asleep during the last few hours by taking timed release melatonin.

But if that is not enough - or kicks in too early, and there's no melatnon left at the end of the night, then you'll need to delay the "kick in" time of the melatonin by encapsulating the melatonin in two more blank caps, so that the melatonin powder is encapsulated in three capsules, not one.

LEF's timed release melatonin comes in "size 1" caps. You can put those into a size "0" cap. You can put the "size 0" assembly of caps into a size "00" cap. You can buy these blank/empty caps from Webvitamins.

But if you use this workaround, then you must not eat within a few hours of sleep time or you will digest through the triple encapsulation too quickly.

The long term solution is to lower your mental stressors.



It is possible there may be other physical stressors that I don't know about.


Sometimes surgery, or a virus / parasite / toxin will do it (these cause inflammation, which in turn causes high cortsol).

Nerve damage is the most debilitating form of surgery which causes continuously high cortisol. It's not the inflammation which causes the high cortisol, it's the erroneous neural signaling, and the brain's response to erroneous neural signals is high cortisol.

You may want to discuss with your medical professional adviser to measure your inflammation markers.

Have you had any nerve damage lately ?




New results:(forgot about this thread when I made my newer thread)

Here's the scan of the results(including results from a year before.
http://s3.supload.com/free/Lab-Adren...0-09.jpg/view/


Sorry but your original URL link was truncated in your original post (not as a result of my edit). Please edit this post and replace this broken URL with the complete URL



I am on zero supplements right now(and during the latest test) Haven't taken DHEA in over 6 months.

Obviously the high DHEA is an improvement over the low DHEA. But the cortisol is even higher!?

What does this mean? What can I do about it. Please give me your feedback.


and



chillin, wouldn't my tests indicate that I have reversed and gone back a stage in adrenal fatigue? Since my DHEA levels are no longer low, they are too high.



Yes, you have gone back a stage in adrenal fatigue. It means your adrenals are recovering (good).

It also means you really need those very high cortisol levels to handle those mental stressors (bad).

###

My own personal experience with high-mental-stressors-with-no-known-cause, is that I had to see a psychologist.

After seeing the psychologist, I can guarantee that I would never have been able to derive the root cause without the experience of a professional.

Also, I would never have consulted the professional voluntarily. I failed two university exams in one day, and I approached the head of my faculty with the statement that I knew I had failed, but I did not know why - I had studied just as hard as I ever did when I had passed with high marks.

I was given an ultimatum by the head of my university faculty:
......If I participated in therapy with a specified psychologist, then this faculty leader would replace my fail marks with pass marks in the two exams.
......If I did not participate in therapy with a specified psychologist, then this faculty leader would simply allow my failure results to remain intact.

Needless to say I participated in the therapy, and between the therapist and myself, we uncovered the root cause of my mental stressors.

[random321]

Chillin, thanks for the detailed response. I will make an appointment with a psychologist. I think that very well may be the best thing for me.

Here are the new lab results:
http://s3.supload.com/free/Lab-Adrenal-3-10-09-20090405102113.jpg/view/

[may19th2001]

If it takes a year for them to repair and my test levels to go back to normal, would it be OK to go on TRT with HCG for a year without causing any damage and to help heal my body?

I think it is always best to try and get your regular hormone levels back.
I do belive it would be better to try to get your hormone levels back first before trying TRT.

My persoal opinion. no medical advise intended.

[chilln]

Chillin, thanks for the detailed response. I will make an appointment with a psychologist. I think that very well may be the best thing for me.

Here are the new lab results:
http://s3.supload.com/free/Lab-Adrenal-3-10-09-20090405102113.jpg/view/


But let's also look at how your low testosterone (total, bioavailable, free) causes continuously high cortisol.

When T = testosterone (total, bioavailable, free) is as low as yours, and if you experience just the usual working person's stressors, then your low T most likely got that way because of the genetic reduction over time.

It's also a sign that your GH (growth hormone) has most likely reduced in a similar way, even if you haven't measured it yet.

The net result of low T and low GH is that you're not able to repair yourself 100.0% after any given day - unless you are on a permanent holiday on a Caribbean or Pacific island.

The net result of not being able to repair yourself 100.0% is that the damage to yoru cells is accumulating every day.

The net result of damage accumulation, is that your cells are signaling your brain, via your central nervous system, that they are damaged and in need of repair.

As the number of damaged cells increases, the level of the "fix me I'm broken" signals increases.

When T = testosterone (total, bioavailable, free) is as low as yours, your brain is not able to counter the messages with sufficient repairs, so your brain has to trigger cortisol to suppress the level of the "fix me I'm broken" messages to allow itself to get on with is regular day-to-day activities. That's one of cortisol's main functions.

The more cumulative damage you experience, the higher will be your cortisol levels.

###

My suggestion is to boost your testosterone - and you're most likely going to have to go on that for life. Your T levels are too low for optimum long term health.

Even if you totally minimize your mental stressors, your residual stress levels are probably still going to be too high for permanent recovery.

[random321]

what about doing a corticosteroid(prednisone/hydrocortisone) taper to give the adrenals a total break and relieve the built up stress. I've read of this being done before.

Would going on TRT for 3-6 month period while on HCG provide significant healing?

Sorry but I'm not willing to go on TRT for life unless I can be assured it won't cause permanent damage if I ever go off of it or some new drug or treatment comes out. I'm too young.

Plus I was on TRT for about 1-2 months and it didn't really help. I grew some hair, lost some weight, gained some muscle, felt a little stronger at times, but overall was more tired and fatigued than normal.

[chilln]

what about doing a corticosteroid(prednisone/hydrocortisone) taper to give the adrenals a total break and relieve the built up stress. I've read of this being done before.


Your cortisol levels are not high due to any adrenal insufficiency / adrenal fatigue issue (at least not yet - that comes later).

So you don't need to solve any adrenal fatigue issues (at least not yet).



Would going on TRT for 3-6 month period while on HCG provide significant healing?


and



Plus I was on TRT for about 1-2 months and it didn't really help. I grew some hair, lost some weight, gained some muscle, felt a little stronger at times, but overall was more tired and fatigued than normal.


A several month boost to your testosterone is always a good place to start. Especially if your medical professional adviser is Dr Crisler.

But whether you get optimized in that time, sufficiently to restore your health to being fighting fit and healthy for several straight months, depends on so many things that we cannot predict the likelihood of a fast turnaround.




Sorry but I'm not willing to go on TRT for life unless I can be assured it won't cause permanent damage if I ever go off of it or some new drug or treatment comes out. I'm too young.


I can guarantee that you will be debilitated for life if you don't boost your testosterone or growth hormone. And usually at your current level of debilitation you may need other supplementary hormones such as pregnenolone and/or DHEA.

What's worse (?)
a) the absence of a long term guarantee for the hormone boost therapy which is guaranteed to work short term,
or
b) the presence of a guarantee of long term debilitation if you don't boost at least your testosterone and/or growth hormone.

I cannot answer this question for you, but I can present you with the pros and cons.

###

Obviously you want to try all your options to not boost testosterone.

Since you fear boosting testosterone, you may want to consider boosting your growth hormone via GHRP ?

###

Let's just repeat what's most likely going on here in case anyone missed it the first time around:

Your cortisol level is continuously high most likely because your testosterone is low (and most likely your GH is therefore also likely to be low) and your whole body (not your adrenals) is accumulating damage which is not being repaired 100% each night.

The cumulative damage to your whole body is causing an increase in the level of the "fix me I'm broken" messages being sent by your damaged cells.

High cortisol is needed to suppress the level of those messages to the same level as your testosterone and growth hormone are able to repair (together).

Boosting your testosterone and/or growth hormone will allow your brain to tolerate a higher level of "fix me I'm broken" messages, which will allow your body to tolerate a lower level of cortisol each day.

Unfortunately cortisol does not repair anything. Cortisol even suppresses testosterone, and cortisol even reduces the effectiveness of the testosterone already present.

The need for high cortisol when testosterone and/or growth hormone are low, makes for a nasty nasty catch-22. This is the fundamental concept behind the common phrase "stress is a killer" (although very few people who use the statement actually understand the biological processes behind it).

[JanSz]

Sorry but I'm not willing to go on TRT for life unless I can be assured it won't cause permanent damage if I ever go off of it or some new drug or treatment comes out. I'm too young.



This way of thinking is rather hurtfull to a specimen currently alive.
================================================== ====
It is excellent approach when considering continualtion of healthy species.

Or being manipulated by someone with idea of a super-race.

Historically many heros (and not-so heros) voluntarily sacrifized their life for greater good (or just when being miss-guided or manipulated).

.
.

[random321]

Jan I don't understand what you mean. Could you explain?


Chillin thanks for your help. I am aware of the pro-s and cons. I've been having an inner struggle with that decision for over 2 years now. Except that no one can give me straight answers on how much damage TRT causes to the natural ability to produce testosterone(if ever gone off of it)

I am open to a short term 3-6 month or even a year of TRT with HCG. However my experience with T wasn't that great when I did a short trial of it.
So I guess my only option getting tuned up with a DOC like Dr. Crisler.

I believe in the bodies ability to heal itself. I've got some other stuff going on that I think if fixed could help this. I have extremely low cholesterol across the board including HDL(about 27), possible malabsorbtion of fat/gallbladder issues/allergies/heavy metal toxicity/insulin resistance/ as well as psychological issues possibly causing psychosomatic illness.

Once I get those fixed and still no testosterone, then I'll consider TRT for life.

[JanSz]

Jan I don't understand what you mean. Could you explain?


Chillin thanks for your help. I am aware of the pro-s and cons. I've been having an inner struggle with that decision for over 2 years now. Except that no one can give me straight answers on how much damage TRT causes to the natural ability to produce testosterone(if ever gone off of it)

I am open to a short term 3-6 month or even a year of TRT with HCG. However my experience with T wasn't that great when I did a short trial of it.
So I guess my only option getting tuned up with a DOC like Dr. Crisler.

I believe in the bodies ability to heal itself. I've got some other stuff going on that I think if fixed could help this. I have extremely low cholesterol across the board including HDL(about 27), possible malabsorbtion of fat/gallbladder issues/allergies/heavy metal toxicity/insulin resistance/ as well as psychological issues possibly causing psychosomatic illness.

Once I get those fixed and still no testosterone, then I'll consider TRT for life.

I am not able to give you better explanation.
You look to me as fully aware of problems that you have and currently available choices to remedy them.

You seem to be mesmerized by better choices that may be available tommorow and not able to make decission today.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
All decissions are made with out benefit of hind site.
.
/

[RandyN]

do you think you may have had low T before losing the weight?

i'm also 22 with pitiful T levels. Ranges from 90's to the 100's. I'm still wondering if my low T surfaced with weight loss or it was an underlying issue all along...i think my IGF1 is also low normal

[random321]

I think my test was at least higher before I gained the weight. I know it was higher before I started having allergic reactions to gluten/dairy,had multiple gallbladder attacks, and got exposure to mercury

Don't give up brother, weight loss can mess hormones up and take a while to recover from for a lot of people. I've heard lots of stories about it.

[random321]

Well it's been a while and Ive been through a lot. I got some labs done after a big collapse after a bad reaction to a stimulant medication(provigil) and during a hydrocortisone taper and a massive yeast infection.

The good news is, trying hydrocortisone for the first time really helped me. The bad news is that I had a massive yeast infection during the taper that I didn't respond to properly, instead of increasing the dose like I should have.. I continued to go off the taper. And I definitely experienced an adrenal crash with massive anxiety, psychiatric symptoms, etc.. And my adrenals are worse off than before.

On the hydrocortisone taper (60mg for 7 days, 40mg for 7 days, and 20mg for 7 days).. I could finally sleep! The first day of hydrocortisone I slept for 10 hours. Normally I only can sleep for 6 hours and I wake up on and off and feel like I need more sleep but cant. My sex drive boosted and my erections became huge and hard for the first time in years. I lost weight and had tons of energy to make it through the whole day. My temperature stayed stable at 98.6. Where as normally and even now they are all over the place from 97.5-98.6

Anyway.. after the mishap of all this my adrenals are worse off than they were before. After being off the taper for a couple weeks I got some lab tests and have since been on 10mg time release HC/day. It helps but it stil doesn't feel like it's enough. I still have ED(can get erections but not hard enough for sex), can't sleep worth a damn, my sleep cycle is all over the place, my temperature is fluctuating from 97.5-986. Can't really get anything done, extremely fatigued.

I can't tolerate oral DHEA or pregnenalone. I am trying to get my doc to prescribe the TD stuff.

I am considering raising my dose to 20mg of hydrocortisone/day or high enough to get stable temps or even switching to medrol. My doctors are warning me not to, because they are afraid of permanent suppression. but I don't know what's right for me.

If I do not take the 10mg hydrocortisone, I have to stay in bed most of the day and get the shakes a little bit. So I think it is causing some suppression or my adrenals were hit hard by the botched taper.

I have just started taking Progesterone cream, and I feel wonderful for about 6 hours after applying it! It must be converting to cortisol.

Here are my lab reports from February. I have some new ones coming in soon.

2-02-10
ACTH Response to stress
10:38AM ACTH 6.8 (10-60 AM draw)

after 30 minute exercise
11:38AM ACTH 9.3 (10-60 AM draw)


ACTH Stim Test 9:51AM
Cort baseline 14.4
ACTH 13(10-60 AM draw)
Aldosterone <4.0 (<=21)

1 hour after ACTH injection

Cortisol 1.0 HR 27.8(>20)
Aldosterone 1.0 HR 6.9 (<=21)

2-1-10

FSH 3.6 (0.7-11.0)
LH 1.2 (.8-7.6

Testosterone, Free 13.7 (9-30)
Testosterone, Total 316 (240-950)
Testosterone, Bio 130(83-257)

SHBG 19(10-60)

Vitamin D 40

Free T3 3.2(2.3-4.2)
T4 7.4(4.1-11.5)
TSH 2.98(.30-5.00)

DHEA-S 146(89-457)

Prolactin 10.8(2.5-17.0)

Cholesterol 120(0-199)
Trig 111(0-150)
HDL 34(40-59)
Ferritin 315(30-500)

Calcium 8.7(8.5-10.4)
Potassium 3.7(3.5-5.3)
Sodium 140(134-146)
Glucose 100(65-99)
ALT 49(0-40)

Advice and interpretations are invited. What do you think?

[JanSz]

Well it's been a while and Ive been through a lot. I got some labs done after a big collapse after a bad reaction to a stimulant medication(provigil) and during a hydrocortisone taper and a massive yeast infection.

The good news is, trying hydrocortisone for the first time really helped me. The bad news is that I had a massive yeast infection during the taper that I didn't respond to properly, instead of increasing the dose like I should have.. I continued to go off the taper. And I definitely experienced an adrenal crash with massive anxiety, psychiatric symptoms, etc.. And my adrenals are worse off than before.

On the hydrocortisone taper (60mg for 7 days, 40mg for 7 days, and 20mg for 7 days).. I could finally sleep! The first day of hydrocortisone I slept for 10 hours. Normally I only can sleep for 6 hours and I wake up on and off and feel like I need more sleep but cant. My sex drive boosted and my erections became huge and hard for the first time in years. I lost weight and had tons of energy to make it through the whole day. My temperature stayed stable at 98.6. Where as normally and even now they are all over the place from 97.5-98.6

Anyway.. after the mishap of all this my adrenals are worse off than they were before. After being off the taper for a couple weeks I got some lab tests and have since been on 10mg time release HC/day. It helps but it stil doesn't feel like it's enough. I still have ED(can get erections but not hard enough for sex), can't sleep worth a damn, my sleep cycle is all over the place, my temperature is fluctuating from 97.5-986. Can't really get anything done, extremely fatigued.

I can't tolerate oral DHEA or pregnenalone. I am trying to get my doc to prescribe the TD stuff.

I am considering raising my dose to 20mg of hydrocortisone/day or high enough to get stable temps or even switching to medrol. My doctors are warning me not to, because they are afraid of permanent suppression. but I don't know what's right for me.

If I do not take the 10mg hydrocortisone, I have to stay in bed most of the day and get the shakes a little bit. So I think it is causing some suppression or my adrenals were hit hard by the botched taper.

I have just started taking Progesterone cream, and I feel wonderful for about 6 hours after applying it! It must be converting to cortisol.

Here are my lab reports from February. I have some new ones coming in soon.

2-02-10
ACTH Response to stress
10:38AM ACTH 6.8 (10-60 AM draw)

after 30 minute exercise
11:38AM ACTH 9.3 (10-60 AM draw)


ACTH Stim Test 9:51AM
Cort baseline 14.4
ACTH 13(10-60 AM draw)
Aldosterone <4.0 (<=21)

1 hour after ACTH injection

Cortisol 1.0 HR 27.8(>20)
Aldosterone 1.0 HR 6.9 (<=21)

2-1-10

FSH 3.6 (0.7-11.0)
LH 1.2 (.8-7.6

Testosterone, Free 13.7 (9-30)
Testosterone, Total 316 (240-950)
Testosterone, Bio 130(83-257)

SHBG 19(10-60)

Vitamin D 40

Free T3 3.2(2.3-4.2)
T4 7.4(4.1-11.5)
TSH 2.98(.30-5.00)

DHEA-S 146(89-457)

Prolactin 10.8(2.5-17.0)

Cholesterol 120(0-199)
Trig 111(0-150)
HDL 34(40-59)
Ferritin 315(30-500)

Calcium 8.7(8.5-10.4)
Potassium 3.7(3.5-5.3)
Sodium 140(134-146)
Glucose 100(65-99)
ALT 49(0-40)

Advice and interpretations are invited. What do you think?

Quote: massive yeast infection
-----

Eat massive amounts of

Wobenzym
Udo's Choice® Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
Country Life Betaine Hydrochloride with Pepsin -- 600 mg - 250 Tablets
Now Foods, DHA-500, 500 DHA / 250 EPA, 180 Softgels
================================================== ============
Quote: hydrocortisone taper (60mg for 7 days, 40mg for 7 days, and 20mg for 7 days).. I could finally sleep!
-----

Eat 40mg-HC/day
no less than 30mg-HC/day
================================================== ============
good ACTH levels, per Chris at STTM
ACTH(48-55)
================================================== ============
SHBG 19
Ferritin 315(30-500)

do whatewer it takes to get
TotalT~1100
every day, not only one day a week

Another criteria,
when you attempt to reach TT=1100 and your
SHBG=19, starts falling, reduce test dose, 19 is real nice value

you did not provided DHT value, assume it is ok
you did not provided E2 value, must monitor it (using valid test, newer ultrasensitive when testing at Quest), at Quest use (E2-4021)

use EOD schedule

HCG-shot=250iu
T-shot=0.2cc=20units=40mg=140mg/week


before you start on supplying testosterone
do complete iron study
even if you are ok
monitor it diligently
testosterone increases iron, you may need management in this area
================================================== ============
HDL 34(40-59)

eat B3-2000mg/day

first month take it with 325mg Aspirin, helps with flushes
================================================== ============
Glucose 100(65-99)

Eliminate from your diet
sugar, potatos, wheat, rice, rye
================================================== ============
ALT 49(0-40)

get liver panel

================================================== ============
Vitamin D 40

you did not provided range
my range is (19-67)

add 5000iu/day
================================================== ============

.

[may19th2001]

Scream for help from a Dr I would be lucky to do that when my Testosterone was looking like that, you need some help ASAP, the reverse effects of body changes take quite a long to reverse if you can even reverse them all in my case.



I am 22 year old male
lost 100 pounds 2.5 years ago
probably over trained/overexercised-started feeling bad/falling asleep after exercise
off and on for past 2.5 years
started having allergies to wheat/gluten and digestive problems
severe fatigue/low energy
eat healthy paleo diet with lots of grassfed beef/fish oil and good fats
lots of supplements
can't supplement DHEA right now due to liver sulfation problems- makes me pass out/fall asleep


Recent Labs:
12/22/08 - approx 2PM
Testosterone, Serum 195(241-827 ng/dl)
Free Test(Direct) 5.5(9.3-26.5pg/ml)
Vitamin D25-hydroxy 31 (32-100)
LH 2.7(1.5-9.3)
FSH 3.8(1.4-18.1)
HDL Cholesterol 27(>39)

Previous Labs:
5/12/08 - approx 9:57 AM
Testosterone, Serum 178(241-827 ng/dl)
Free Test(Direct) 4.3(9.3-26.5pg/ml)
DHEA Sulfate 113( 280-640ug/dl)
Cortisol 19.7(3.1-22.4ug/dl)

1/02/08 - approx 9:30 AM
Testosterone, Serum 263(241-827 ng/dl)
Free Test(Direct) 9.5(9.3-26.5pg/ml)
Cortisol 24.6(3.1-22.4)
HDL Cholesterol 36(40-59)

2/20/08 - Morning
Thyroid
Free T4(blood spot) 1.9 (0.7-2.5) ng/dl
Free T3(blood spot) 3.3 (2.5-6.5) pg/ml
TSH(blood spot) 0.8 (0.5-3.0) uU/ml
TPO(blood spot) 9 (0-150) IU/ml

Estradiol(Saliva) <0.5 (0.5-2.2) pg/ml
Progesterone(Saliva) 11L (12-100) pg/ml
Testosterone(Saliva) 82 (72-148(age21)) pg/ml
DHEAS(Saliva) 6.3 (7-23(age21)) ng/ml


Cortisol Morning(Saliva) 12.2H (3.7-9.5) ng/ml
Cortisol Noon(Saliva) 2.1 (1.2-3.0) ng/ml
Cortisol Evening(Saliva) 2.4H (0.6-1.9) ng/ml
Cortisol Night(Saliva) 0.5 (0.4-1.0) ng/ml


2/28/08 - Morning
Free T4(Direct) 1.63 (0.61-1.76) ng/dL
TSH 4.510 (0.350-5.500) uIU/mL
Free T3, Serum 3.4 (2.3-4.2) pg/mL
Ferritin, Serum 226 (22-322) ng/mL



Can you give me feedback as to what this all means as I have not have a doctor give me any clear diagnosis. From the looks of it, am I primary or secondary?
It seems my FREE levels a year ago were twice as high, and I don't have any levels from before that but I think they must have been higher.

Could Low Vitamin D cause my testicles to lose sensitivity to LH?

What do you think the best course of action/treatment would be?

Would it be OK for me to stop some suffering right now and go on TRT with HCG for 3 months to a Year, while getting healthier before attempting some sort of restart?

I have symptoms of adrenal fatigue, would supplementing cortisol help, even though I tend to have high cortisol levels? Would Testosterone keep cortisol from getting too high and help adrenals heal?

When I did a 2 week trial of testim about 2 weeks ago, (my levels got to 630 Total and 16 Free T)I felt a little bit better and lost some weight but overall felt more fatigued/low energy and had a hard time getting an erection which I didn't have before. What caused this?

[random321]

JanSz, thanks for your post.

Since when does Total T matter?

I thought that free test or bioavailable was all that matters? Even though my total T is low, my bioavail T is midrange, is that good. I still have quite a few masculine features, I'm sure I'd do better on more though.

I am considering upping the HC. I'll start with 20mg first and see how I do. It's hard doing this against the doctors orders, there warning me not to so I don't suppress adrenals.

[JanSz]

JanSz, thanks for your post.

Since when does Total T matter?

I thought that free test or bioavailable was all that matters? Even though my total T is low, my bioavail T is midrange, is that good. I still have quite a few masculine features, I'm sure I'd do better on more though.

I am considering upping the HC. I'll start with 20mg first and see how I do. It's hard doing this against the doctors orders, there warning me not to so I don't suppress adrenals.

Good point.
What lab did those analysis?

Usually I discount anybody else but Quest, when looking at BAT.
Your results at least looks proportional, that is they have a look as if they may actually be good,
or they are forged by professional, not amateur.

We had some others, posting their BAT, it was higher that TT. Physical impossibility.

----
Assuming that we would accept your results:

Testosterone, Free 13.7 (9-30)
Testosterone, Total 316 (240-950)
Testosterone, Bio 130(83-257)
SHBG 19(10-60)

You would like to have BAT~950

and newer less than

(950-240)/4*3+316=850

you are very far from those goals.


///////////////////

[random321]

JanSz, Those labs were from A hospital lab, Centura Labs. However I'm pretty sure they outsourced some of it, including the BioT, which took over a week to get back.

So the range on my BioT labs is way too low? I thought that total testosterone didn't matter, only free testosterone or bio available?

So far my doctor won't prescribe testosterone. Is there anyway I can order that online?

Here are my new labs from this week:

4/14/2010 - 9:04 AM

Results from LabCorp
(I did not get any sleep the night before this test,
but my sleep cycle is all over the place and I sleep during the day sometimes)

Testosterone, Serum 288(280-800)
Free Testosterone Direct (pending)

Estradiol 18.5(7.6-42.6)
Roche ECLIA methodology
Is this an accurate test?
(I have been taking Calcium D-glucarate and DIM-100mg/day)

Progesterone 0.2(0.2-1.4)
(is this low enough to warrant supplementation?)
I am currently taking a small amount of prog cream nightly and I feel great after taking it.

Ferritin, Serum 370 30-400

Vitamin D, 25-hydroxy 54.3 (32-100)
(been supplementing 5000IU/day since feb)

Carbon Dioxide, Total 17(20-32)

RDW 16.7(11.7-15.0)

Total Cholesterol 152(100-199)
Triglycerides 169(0-149)
HDL 34(>39)

Hemaglobin A1c 5.4(4.8-5.6)

Liver panel - good
Glucose - good

[JanSz]

Testosterone, Serum 288
Ferritin, Serum 370

You badly need testosterone
You may have hemochromatosis

Thread wisely, look for good doctor who can marry and manage the two simultaneously.

Read Bryce720 posts, specially the one in his long thread, where he deals with
low test
high SHBG (yours is nice SHBG 19(10-60)
hemochromatosis
and
number of other defficiencies

you will learn a lot from his posts.
On one of the first posts there is link to his first postings on AM board, read that too.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Double your vit D dose
Double your progesterone dose
lots of EPA and twice as much DHA
B3-2000mg/day
Wobenzym
probiotics
Betaine HCL
skip all high GI food
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ACTH 13(10-60 AM draw)
Potassium 3.7(3.5-5.3)

Your adrenals will need support

ACTH 13(10-60 AM draw)
should be like (48-55)

Your thyroid needs attention
TSH 2.98(.30-5.00)

Cholesterol is not that great
Cholesterol 120(0-199)
Trig 111(0-150)
HDL 34(40-59)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glucose 100(65-99)

too much
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tell me what kind advice you want to hear.
Whatewer you touch, needs attention.

Read each and every one of Bryce720 posts here and on his thread at AM board,

digest them

note that Bryce is wery active and able to arrange for required resources, and he reqires a lot, so do you
----
then reply

-------------------------------------------------

//

[hardasnails1973]

Jesus christ jansz your going to throw his chemistry off something fierce. The last thing the kid needs is fish oil thats going to drive his cholesterol even lower making him sicker. He dealing with some kind of hidden infection with in his body depending on where he is from could be lyme disease or he may have even been exposed hep B. When cholesterol is low that is not good and driving it even lower is even more dangerous. He needs proper ratio of good fats with alot of saturated fat. He also needs to see a hemotologist and look for other things that are going on. Instead of dooming kid to TRT dr needs to find out if he is secondary or primary first step and then go from there. I agree he needs testosteorne but let his own body produce fit. Hemochromatosis milk thistle will deplete the shit out of ferritin as well as molybednum. The problem is that is not getting immobilized so you have to prevent the build up and chelate it out at the same time. I can vouche for milk thistle driving ferritin down also curcumin liposomal will also help. the kids body is state of inflammation but fish oils will only make mater worse in several cases of low cholesterol. He also should be on ubiqnuol since his body is acting like a natural statin for some reason which may be genetic. These area need to be explored before moving forward with such a radical plan. I see to many people that come into the office that their biochemistry are all out of wack because people do not understand nutrient interaction.
I suspect potential celiac or gluten sensitivity is also involved here as well. I have dealt with hundreds of cases with low cholesterol and there is always 80% or better intestinal issues at the core source of the problem. Dhea will low cholesterol is not a good idea its only going to drive it down further.

[JanSz]

Jesus christ jansz your going to throw his chemistry off something fierce. The last thing the kid needs is fish oil thats going to drive his cholesterol even lower making him sicker. He dealing with some kind of hidden infection with in his body depending on where he is from could be lyme disease or he may have even been exposed hep B. When cholesterol is low that is not good and driving it even lower is even more dangerous. He needs proper ratio of good fats with alot of saturated fat. He also needs to see a hemotologist and look for other things that are going on. Instead of dooming kid to TRT dr needs to find out if he is secondary or primary first step and then go from there. I agree he needs testosteorne but let his own body produce fit. Hemochromatosis milk thistle will deplete the shit out of ferritin as well as molybednum. The problem is that is not getting immobilized so you have to prevent the build up and chelate it out at the same time. I can vouche for milk thistle driving ferritin down also curcumin liposomal will also help. the kids body is state of inflammation but fish oils will only make mater worse in several cases of low cholesterol. He also should be on ubiqnuol since his body is acting like a natural statin for some reason which may be genetic. These area need to be explored before moving forward with such a radical plan. I see to many people that come into the office that their biochemistry are all out of wack because people do not understand nutrient interaction.
I suspect potential celiac or gluten sensitivity is also involved here as well. I have dealt with hundreds of cases with low cholesterol and there is always 80% or better intestinal issues at the core source of the problem. Dhea will low cholesterol is not a good idea its only going to drive it down further.

He already knows that he needs lots of testing.
But he lack decent doctor.
If he could make the trip, I am sure you could help him.

As for a fish oil,
sorry, but you have to take it up with Spectracell.

He have problem with triglycerides.

Look up in attachment what Spectracell tells to do.

Yes, they say to use Omega3's (EPA & DHA)
and Niacin
...

[random321]

Jesus christ jansz your going to throw his chemistry off something fierce. The last thing the kid needs is fish oil thats going to drive his cholesterol even lower making him sicker. He dealing with some kind of hidden infection with in his body depending on where he is from could be lyme disease or he may have even been exposed hep B. When cholesterol is low that is not good and driving it even lower is even more dangerous. He needs proper ratio of good fats with alot of saturated fat. He also needs to see a hemotologist and look for other things that are going on. Instead of dooming kid to TRT dr needs to find out if he is secondary or primary first step and then go from there. I agree he needs testosteorne but let his own body produce fit. Hemochromatosis milk thistle will deplete the shit out of ferritin as well as molybednum. The problem is that is not getting immobilized so you have to prevent the build up and chelate it out at the same time. I can vouche for milk thistle driving ferritin down also curcumin liposomal will also help. the kids body is state of inflammation but fish oils will only make mater worse in several cases of low cholesterol. He also should be on ubiqnuol since his body is acting like a natural statin for some reason which may be genetic. These area need to be explored before moving forward with such a radical plan. I see to many people that come into the office that their biochemistry are all out of wack because people do not understand nutrient interaction.
I suspect potential celiac or gluten sensitivity is also involved here as well. I have dealt with hundreds of cases with low cholesterol and there is always 80% or better intestinal issues at the core source of the problem. Dhea will low cholesterol is not a good idea its only going to drive it down further.

hardasnails1973,

in response to some of the issues you brought up.

I do have some kind of gluten sensitivity and other food sensitivites. I have been avoiding gluten/dairy/grains for over 4 years now and it has helped me tremendously.

I eat a low carb paleo diet, high in protein and saturated fat.

I have been taking Jarrow Formula's Milk Thistle 4caps/day and 600mcg of molybdenum for the past 2 months.

I recently eradicated(i'm pretty sure) a chronic yeast infection(which had to be going on for a year or more). I used a course of diflucan to kill it and am using several herbal antifungals for prophylaxis.

I recently tested positive for H. Pylori infection on a stool test, though past antibody tests have been negative. I am currently trying a treatment protocol using OTC supplements.

If this is a clue for anything: I have a slightly distended abdomen/bowel. After my doctor examined it, he says it's distended with gas because of the noise it makes when he taps it. He says it's nothing to worry about, just eat more fiber.

All the results that could possibly determine if I'm secondary or primary(for test,adrenals, and thyroid) have been done and are posted here. My endo thinks I'm perfectly fine. I'm pretty sure I don't have primary hypogonadism, as my LH is low, not high.

He says that because my bio available testosterone is mid-range, it doesn't matter my total T is so low. But I'm not sure how accurate the ranges of this test are.

I have elevated urine porphyrins which could be an indicator of heavy metal toxicity. I personally believe I have mercury poisoning,

Somebody on the adrenals group suggested that having low cortisol could cause the inflammation that is raising the ferritin.

[chilln]

The good news is, trying hydrocortisone for the first time really helped me.


Now you know.



After being off the taper for a couple weeks I got some lab tests and have since been on 10mg time release HC/day. It helps but it stil doesn't feel like it's enough.


It's a trivial amount, ie: rarely enough. I doubt it's enough for you at this time.



I can't tolerate oral DHEA or pregnenalone. I am trying to get my doc to prescribe the TD stuff.


Fair enough, but there's no law which say we need these. Ie: don't stress if your body does not need them at this stage.



I am considering raising my dose to 20mg of hydrocortisone/day or high enough to get stable temps.


Obviously.



or even switching to medrol.


No need to switch to medrol unless you need to supplement with HC several times each day, and it becomes annoying, but you will nalso need to weight up the cons with this approach, as described here:

When I supplement with HC, it's once or twice a day, but that's not enough of an inconvenience for me to switch to medrol.

If you and your medical professional adviser are seriously considering medrol, then please also learn about what that entails here:
part 1: http://musclechatroom.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86236&postcount=2
part 2: http://musclechatroom.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86236&postcount=3




My doctors are warning me not to, because they are afraid of permanent suppression. but I don't know what's right for me.


Cortisol suppression isn't permanent on HC or medrol, but you should still learn about some critical pros and cons at the above links.




If I do not take the 10mg hydrocortisone, I have to stay in bed most of the day and get the shakes a little bit. So I think it is causing some suppression or my adrenals were hit hard by the botched taper.


Taper wasn't "botched" just wasn't appropriate at this time. To boost adrenal output, you'll most likely need to get some more hormones under management, eg: your pregnenolone trials, or yoru DHEA trials, but more likely a T boost and getting your cortisol under management enough for you to get appropriate sleep.



I have just started taking Progesterone cream, and I feel wonderful for about 6 hours after applying it! It must be converting to cortisol.


Or any one of a number of hormones. Don't assume, get the cortisol salivary tests, or a urinary profile.



Here are my lab reports from February. I have some new ones coming in soon.

2-02-10
ACTH Response to stress
10:38AM ACTH 6.8 (10-60 AM draw)

after 30 minute exercise
11:38AM ACTH 9.3 (10-60 AM draw)


ACTH Stim Test 9:51AM
Cort baseline 14.4
ACTH 13(10-60 AM draw)
Aldosterone <4.0 (<=21)

1 hour after ACTH injection

Cortisol 1.0 HR 27.8(>20)
Aldosterone 1.0 HR 6.9 (<=21)

2-1-10

FSH 3.6 (0.7-11.0)
LH 1.2 (.8-7.6

Testosterone, Free 13.7 (9-30)
Testosterone, Total 316 (240-950)
Testosterone, Bio 130(83-257)

SHBG 19(10-60)

Vitamin D 40

Free T3 3.2(2.3-4.2)
T4 7.4(4.1-11.5)
TSH 2.98(.30-5.00)

DHEA-S 146(89-457)

Prolactin 10.8(2.5-17.0)

Cholesterol 120(0-199)
Trig 111(0-150)
HDL 34(40-59)
Ferritin 315(30-500)

Calcium 8.7(8.5-10.4)
Potassium 3.7(3.5-5.3)
Sodium 140(134-146)
Glucose 100(65-99)
ALT 49(0-40)


These are all good, but I'm not comfortable with omitting E2 sensitive or ultrasensitive. E2 feeds back on the remaining hormones very strongly, so it really should be included as an "equal partner" with the tests you've listed here.

I'm also not comfortable with your omission of GH testing, as either urinary GH (pref) or IGF-1 (less preferable). GH is super critical to optimal health. Even if you suspect that you and your medical professional adviser might not modulate your GH even if it's low, you still must know its status to be able to predict what's happening to your remaining hormones (sorry to be the bearer of less-than-optimal news).

.

[random321]

Ferritin, Serum 370 30-400

RDW 16.7(11.7-15.0)

What does high RDW mean?

My doctor is worried that it means I'm having chronic blood loss, possibly from colon cancer? Is this possible? I've read that elevated ferritin can be indicator of cancer.

[JanSz]

Ferritin, Serum 370 30-400

RDW 16.7(11.7-15.0)

What does high RDW mean?

My doctor is worried that it means I'm having chronic blood loss, possibly from colon cancer? Is this possible? I've read that elevated ferritin can be indicator of cancer.

Red Cell Indices
MCV, MCH, MCHC, and RDW

Red cell distribution width (RDW) is a calculation of the variation in the size of your RBCs. In some anemias, such as pernicious anemia, the amount of variation (anisocytosis) in RBC size (along with variation in shape – poikilocytosis) causes an increase in the RDW.


///////

[random321]

OK, so I convinced a doc to prescribe me some 10% compounded T gel from AnewRx. 50-100mg/day She wouldn't give me HCG, but I have some I ordered.

My plan is to start with 50mg(.5ml) gel/day with 250IU HCG EOD.

On this same dose of Testim Gel I tried a year ago, 50mg brought my total to 630(241-827) and free T to 15.1(9.3-26.5)

At this dose of Testim I started getting erectile dysfunction and quit, never checking E2. When I tried 10grams(100mg) of testim, I started seeing some hair loss and I quit(It's all grown back now)

What level should I shoot for? I may need to use 100mg/day.

I felt great after taking the dose in the morning but it seemed to have worn off.

How many hours after dosing do I take the test? When should I check my levels(t, free T, e2, DHT)?


BTW, I also got some 10% pregnenolone cream and 10% DHEA cream from AnewRx. Been taking that as well 100mg of pregnenolone/day and 25-50mg of DHEA/day

I am taking 20mg hydrocortisone/day in divided doses, but it seems so unstable and hard for me to take it frequently enough. I am considering switch to medrol 4mg.

Also, started taking glucophage XR 500mg to control insulin. I get bad cravings and hunger if I eat anymore than 0 carbs/day. I'm formerly type II diabetic and used to weigh 350lbs. I now weigh 220.

[JanSz]

OK, so I convinced a doc to prescribe me some 10% compounded T gel from AnewRx. 50-100mg/day She wouldn't give me HCG, but I have some I ordered.

My plan is to start with 50mg(.5ml) gel/day with 250IU HCG EOD.

On this same dose of Testim Gel I tried a year ago, 50mg brought my total to 630(241-827) and free T to 15.1(9.3-26.5)

At this dose of Testim I started getting erectile dysfunction and quit, never checking E2. When I tried 10grams(100mg) of testim, I started seeing some hair loss and I quit(It's all grown back now)

What level should I shoot for? I may need to use 100mg/day.

I felt great after taking the dose in the morning but it seemed to have worn off.

How many hours after dosing do I take the test? When should I check my levels(t, free T, e2, DHT)?


BTW, I also got some 10% pregnenolone cream and 10% DHEA cream from AnewRx. Been taking that as well 100mg of pregnenolone/day and 25-50mg of DHEA/day

I am taking 20mg hydrocortisone/day in divided doses, but it seems so unstable and hard for me to take it frequently enough. I am considering switch to medrol 4mg.

Also, started taking glucophage XR 500mg to control insulin. I get bad cravings and hunger if I eat anymore than 0 carbs/day. I'm formerly type II diabetic and used to weigh 350lbs. I now weigh 220.

HC--vs--Medrol

I am back from Medrol to HC

Indeed Medrol have given me smoother ride than HC.
I learned to connect mid-day sleepiness or tiredness
when it comes, I do not struggle, I pop next dose of HC

I do not know how to describe it, ride on Medrol is smoother but somewhat dull.

I am not really bashing Maedrol just describing my experience.
================================================


Use transdermal-T only if you are missing on DHT


My own Goals
DHEAs(500-640)mcg/dL(13.55-17.34)µmol/L-------major player, 95% time overlooked
Progesterone(0.9-1.2)ng/mL
Pregnenolone(> 100ng/dL)
Estradiol, (25-29)pg/mL
Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
do not use Anastrozole if possible or minimize its use
BATest~575ng/dL
DHT(60-90)ng/dL (I am active when it gets over or under this range)
RT3(0.12-0.32)nmol/L=(7.8-20.8)ng/dL=(78-208)pg/mL(( Ron Rothenberg, MD 10-16ng/dL) 09:22 show http://progressive.uvault.com/pd1005/UCP091/03Rothenberg/player.HTM
TotalT3 in upper 1/3 range (June09 LEF magazine)
FreeT3~400pg/dL or higher if TotalT3 goal not reached, but not higher than 450
TotalT4>bottom of range
FreeT4 rather low
Oral temperature (36.25 - 36.80)C = (97.25 - 98.24)F (no sinus or oral infections)
Ferritin(100-150), but Hg & Hct are first priority


.

[random321]

JanSz, is it ok to take HC and medrol at the same time? Like a base dose of 4mg/medrol and then 5-10mg HC for stress dosing after exercise?

My cortisol seems to wear off rather suddenly and I get cold, body temp drops and I feel tired. By the time I'm aware of taking the next dose, I've already crashed a little. I'm concerned that unstable HC levels might not be as healthy as something more stable.

I already feel like crap on this testosterone. At first I felt strong and powerful, but now I feel fatigued and low energy and have ED. Worse than before. Must be estrogen. I will have to get labs soon.

[JanSz]

JanSz, is it ok to take HC and medrol at the same time? Like a base dose of 4mg/medrol and then 5-10mg HC for stress dosing after exercise?

My cortisol seems to wear off rather suddenly and I get cold, body temp drops and I feel tired. By the time I'm aware of taking the next dose, I've already crashed a little. I'm concerned that unstable HC levels might not be as healthy as something more stable.

I already feel like crap on this testosterone. At first I felt strong and powerful, but now I feel fatigued and low energy and have ED. Worse than before. Must be estrogen. I will have to get labs soon.

I would say that Cortef=HC is healthier than Medrol
Cortef=HC--->bio-identical
Medrol------->synthetic

Problem with Medrol is that its status in the body cannot be confirmed by testing, so you are flying blind.

Maximum Medrol that you are allowed to take on long term basis is
6mg/day
no stress dose allowed.

Maximum Cortef=HC that you can take is
40mg/day
stress dose is allowed
stress dose is not defined
my definition of stress dose:
do 24hr urine Cortisol test while on 40mg-HC/day for 2 days before and during 24hr urine collection

look at results. If Cortisol<top range
make your guess how much more you could take
newer be in position where
24hr Cortisol>top range

---------
After swallowing pill
Cortef=HC acts fastest, not immediately, but fast
Medrol is slow
---------
------------------------------------------------------------------------

You may be missing a big deal on your basic adrenal (and other) support.

Consider this set of tests and then follow up per results.

Spectracell-5000
including all micronutirents, lipids and reports

Fatty Acid Analysis
Hair Analysis


...
review my post #25, 29, 31, 37


==================================

[random321]

OK, so after 3 days(today will be 4th) on 50mg of 10% T compounded T gel, and 250IU HCG E3D.

I see the size of my muscle getting bigger and veins starting poke out of skin. Have felt some sensation of being more powerful and driven but short lasting. Mostly no improvement in sex drive.
Erectile dysfuntion is still present, I can get an erection but it's very wimpy and not hard enough for sex.
My hair is starting to thin out. I can see it in the mirror.
I have felt slightly more depressed and cold than normal.

I will be getting labs done today. Suspect high DHT and E2. Am using 5% spiro topical on my scalp starting today. Will try .25mg liquidex EOD after labs.

[JanSz]

OK, so after 3 days(today will be 4th) on 50mg of 10% T compounded T gel, and 250IU HCG E3D.

I see the size of my muscle getting bigger and veins starting poke out of skin. Have felt some sensation of being more powerful and driven but short lasting. Mostly no improvement in sex drive.
Erectile dysfuntion is still present, I can get an erection but it's very wimpy and not hard enough for sex.
My hair is starting to thin out. I can see it in the mirror.
I have felt slightly more depressed and cold than normal.

I will be getting labs done today. Suspect high DHT and E2. Am using 5% spiro topical on my scalp starting today. Will try .25mg liquidex EOD after labs.

You have way to many plans and observations after 3days of compounded T.

I suggest that nothing really changed,
all is in your fertile mind.
...............

[random321]

You have way to many plans and observations after 3days of compounded T.

I suggest that nothing really changed,
all is in your fertile mind.
...............

You may be right. I am getting labs done today, so we will see.

I really see and feel these changes with my senses and think they are true. This is the same thing that happened when I tried Testim for a couple weeks last year, so I am hyper alert on looking for those same signs.

Another specific measurable thing I see is increased body hair on arms and legs.

My skin is very light and thin, so my veins show through with a bright blue color on my chest and arms as they come closer to surface of the skin. Normally I can barely see them, now they stand out big time.

From what I understand transdermal T is stable within a couple days.

I don't feel any benefit from this TRT, and I feel slightly worse off. So I want to tweak my estrogen(if that's a problem) as fast as possible to avoid feeling like crap.

How long should it take for my sex drive and ED to improve? I am very impatient and don't want to waste anytime feeling like shit.

[random321]

OK, so I really am losing hair. Today when taking a shower, I scrubbed some shampoo into my hair and took my hands away and there was hundreds of little peices of hair mixed in the the shampoo. I hope this Spiro starts working soon, I've only used it twice so far.

I took liquidex .25mg EOD and it doesn't really seem to be helping anything. Found out that it contains aspartame, which I'm sensitive too and it's been making me feel like crap.

[random321]

OK, got some labs in after starting the transdermal. Appears you may be right JanSz. My DHT is in range, but I am still definitely shedding a little hair.

E2 looks on the low side? what do you think?, I should not have taken any arimidex. That probably made me worse.

My IGF-1 is high out of range, what does that mean?

This test was taken 3 hours after 50mg of 10% transdermal gel from AnewRX. Do I need more or is this enough?

I still have weak erections and not much libido.

click here now to see lab results (https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BwrzqmyemlQuYTJlNzBiNGYtMTg3Ni00MjYyL ThiZWMtZmQ4MWFkZjJkODM2&hl=en)

[JanSz]

OK, got some labs in after starting the transdermal. Appears you may be right JanSz. My DHT is in range, but I am still definitely shedding a little hair.

E2 looks on the low side? what do you think?, I should not have taken any arimidex. That probably made me worse.

My IGF-1 is high out of range, what does that mean?

This test was taken 3 hours after 50mg of 10% transdermal gel from AnewRX. Do I need more or is this enough?

I still have weak erections and not much libido.

click here now to see lab results (https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BwrzqmyemlQuYTJlNzBiNGYtMTg3Ni00MjYyL ThiZWMtZmQ4MWFkZjJkODM2&hl=en)


LabCorp
cholesterol tot=117
trig--------------=167(0-149)
HDL------------=32(>39)

TT=583
SHBG=22.7
E2 sensitive=12
DHT=60(30-85)
IGF-1=361(116-358) high

=====================================
I think that you will end up requiring (Androgel or 10% transdermal gel from AnewRX plus some injectable testostereone)
With your current SHBG level you need to raise your TT~1250
When you do that, I think your E2 will fall into right place.
The question will be about DHT.
For that reason I would rather start with injectable testosterone applied EOD.
And then see what kind corrections you will need due to DHT.
You still may do that.
Drop transdermal, do injectable-T EOD


================================
This is lattest (about week old) from Spectracell
if you want correct your cholesterol
read it




================================

Lower Triglycerides

• Niacin
• Red Yeast Rice
• Omega-3 Fatty Acids
• Pantethine http://www.pantethine.net/ (Pantothenic acid)=B5, (Pantethine is not B5)
• Fiber

================================
Increase HDL2b

• Niacin
• Omega-3 Fatty Acids
• Pantethine
• Alcohol
• Exercise
• Weight Reduction
• Stop Smoking
================================


/

[r3drang3r]

OK, so I really am losing hair. Today when taking a shower, I scrubbed some shampoo into my hair and took my hands away and there was hundreds of little peices of hair mixed in the the shampoo. I hope this Spiro starts working soon, I've only used it twice so far.

I took liquidex .25mg EOD and it doesn't really seem to be helping anything. Found out that it contains aspartame, which I'm sensitive too and it's been making me feel like crap.
Jansz is giving you sound advice. This is one of those things you can't be in a hurry to fix. Never do more than one change at a time and wait to see the results. Otherwise you'll never know what caused what to change.

Good Luck...

[random321]

Thanks, I'll see what I can do about getting the doc to prescribe injectable.

Is the high IGF-1 anything to worry about?

[random321]

OK, just got a new lab in for Estradiol: Very Low.
I'm not taking any AI except I've taken some calcium d-glucarate on and off.

Estradiol, Sensitive(LabCorp) 7 pg/ml(3-70)

The good news is I've obtained a prescription for injectable Test Cypionate and will start that soon. However, my doc wrote on the script to limit me to 2ml/month, so I can't take anymore than 100mg/week unless I obtain more.

If I inject SubQ EOD, what guage insulin syringe do I need to use?

[JanSz]

OK, just got a new lab in for Estradiol: Very Low.
I'm not taking any AI except I've taken some calcium d-glucarate on and off.

Estradiol, Sensitive(LabCorp) 7 pg/ml(3-70)

The good news is I've obtained a prescription for injectable Test Cypionate and will start that soon. However, my doc wrote on the script to limit me to 2ml/month, so I can't take anymore than 100mg/week unless I obtain more.

If I inject SubQ EOD, what guage insulin syringe do I need to use?

2mL--->400mg

=400/(365/12/7)=92mg/week

EOD schedule
92/7*2=26mg/shot=13units/shot

I use (only) these syringes.

BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $27.80


.

[random321]

Lab Results: 6/21/2010 1:15 PM 6/21/2010
AGE: 24 M



Glucose, Serum 86 mg/dL 65-99
Uric Acid, Serum 5.3 mg/dL 2.4-8.2
BUN 17 mg/dL 5-26
Creatinine, Serum 0.95 mg/dL 0.76-1.27
eGFR >59 mL/min/1.73 >59 01

BUN/Creatinine Ratio 18 8-27 01
Sodium, Serum 138 mmol/L 135-145 I'm taking florinef, perhaps I can handle a little more salt.
Potassium, Serum 4.0 mmol/L 3.5-5.2 Been supplementing 750mg K-DUR Time release potassium/day
Chloride, Serum 103 mmol/L 97-108
Carbon Dioxide, Total 21 mmol/L 20-32
Calcium, Serum 9.3 mg/dL 8.7-10.2
Phosphorus, Serum 3.9 mg/dL 2.5-4.5
Protein, Total, Serum 6.7 g/dL 6.0-8.5
Albumin, Serum 4.5 g/dL 3.5-5.5
Globulin, Total 2.2 g/dL 1.5-4.5


A/G Ratio 2.0 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin, Total 0.8 mg/dL 0.0-1.2
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 63 IU/L 25-150
LDH 118 IU/L 100-250
AST (SGOT) 20 IU/L 0-40
ALT (SGPT) 21 IU/L 0-55

Cholesterol, Total 100 mg/dL 100-199 Yikes! Lowest it's ever been!
Triglycerides 133 mg/dL 0-149
HDL Cholesterol 30 Low mg/dL >39 Pretty low!

Perhaps the fact that I'm taking HCG to stimulate more testosterone release is using up more of my cholesterol to make testosterone. I've been eating a lower fat diet with too much fruit. Will switch back to high fat low carb diet and test again soon.

I suspect low bile flow due to mercury poisoning. I get very tired after fatty meals and have very fatty greasy stools after eating fatty meals as well as chronic constipation that nothing helps. I will supplement oxbile @ 3-9 capsules per day to avoid

VLDL Cholesterol Cal 27 mg/dL 5-40
LDL Cholesterol Calc 43 mg/dL 0-99
T. Chol/HDL Ratio 3.3 ratio units 0.0-5.0
Estimated CHD Risk < 0.5 times avg. 0.0-1.0

WBC 6.1 x10E3/uL 4.0-10.5
RBC 5.39 x10E6/uL 4.20-6.00
Hemoglobin 16.3 g/dL 13.0-18.0
Hematocrit 47.8 % 37.0-55.0
MCV 89 fL 80-98
MCH 30.2 pg 27.0-34.0
MCHC 34.0 g/dL 32.0-36.0
RDW 14.3 % 11.7-15.0
Platelets Note: x10E3/uL 140-415
Unable to perform accurate platelet count due to platelet clumps.
Platelets appear adequate on slide.
Neutrophils 64 % 40-74
Lymphs 28 % 14-46
Monocytes 7 % 4-13
Eos 1 % 0-7
Basos 0 % 0-3
Immature Cells
Neutrophils (Absolute) 3.9 x10E3/uL 1.8-7.8


Iron, Serum 63 ug/dL 40-155
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 284 ug/dL 250-450
UIBC 221 ug/dL 150-375
Iron Saturation 22 % 15-55

Looks good, no hemachromatosis, Ferritin must be high due to inflammation.




Pregnenolone, MS 44 ng/dL
Reference Range:
Adults: <20 - 150 Not too bad, I've been applying 100mg/day TD PREG cream for past 6 weeks. Perhaps I should double or triple the dose and retest in 4-6 weeks.


Dihydrotestosterone 76 ng/dL
Reference Range:
Adult Male: 30 - 85 I'm still suffering from minor hairloss especially if I even tho I'm using spiro/keto hairloss formula, tho it's slowed down very much. Perhaps the progesterone will help.


Testosterone, Serum 390 ng/dL 280-800
Free Testosterone(Direct) 13.4 pg/mL 9.3-26.5
This is weird because I'm taking 100mg/day TD testerone gel from AnewRx and dosed 2-3 hours before getting these labs. Perhaps the gel is not effective on me at all and I've been cruising on HCG only all this time. It was probably 3 days after my last HCG injection.


Vitamin B12 1268 High pg/mL 211-946

Folate (Folic Acid), Serum 8.3 ng/mL >3.0
Indeterminate: 2.2 - 3.0
Deficient: <2.2

LH 1.7 mIU/mL 1.7-8.6
FSH 1.5 mIU/mL 1.5-12.4
OK, this is wierd, because I've been on 100mg/day TD testosterone and this test was takin 2-3 hours after applying. I've also been taking 250IU HCG E3D.
Also I've been taking low dose naltrexone 4.5mg/night for past 8 months. Either, way It's interesting to note that my LH/FSH is not suppressed. It's normally about the same.

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 66.1 ng/mL 32.0-100.0 01

Lookin good. After supplementing 10,000IU/day for 6 weeks. Will probably go back down to 5000IU/day now that it's summer.




Estradiol(non-sensitive) 22.0 pg/mL 7.6-42.6

Estradiol, Sensitive(LabCorp) 7 pg/ml(3-70)

Damn, what should I do about low estrogen? I can't take oral DHEA. maybe the progesterone and more test will help? I have bad ED.


DHEA-Sulfate 232.2 ug/dL 211.0-492.0 - been supplementing 100mg TD DHEA/day for past 6 weeks. Perhaps I should up the dose? by how much I'm no sure?

Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.8 ng/mL 0.0-4.0


Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.2 pg/mL 2.0-4.4
T4,Free(Direct) 1.73 ng/dL 0.82-1.77
Reverse T3 320 pg/mL 90-350
Can anyone interpret this? I have a low temperature.

TSH 1.240 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500
Thyroxine (T4) 8.9 ug/dL 4.5-12.0

Progesterone 0.6 ng/mL 0.2-1.4 up 0.4 since last tested, been supplementing TD prog on and off. Skipped it a day before the test. Will keep up until I get it to top of range. I'll take the cream every day and retest in 2-6 weeks.

Insulin 10.6 uIU/mL 0.0-24.9 Have been eating too much fruit. Aiming to get this down to below 3 by eating low carb diet and exercising.

Magnesium, RBC 6.6 mg/dL 4.2-6.8 I've been taking 400-800mg magnesium/day

My main complaint is low energy, depression, and erectile dysfunction. I tried a low dose of levitra and it doesn't even seem to help. I had sex the other night and it's just not hard enough for sex. I had to pull out and not finish, it was embarassing. What do you think the problem is? Low E2?

I have been off TD testosterone and HCG since the day after this test(2 weeks) and my natural testosterone seems fairly normal, maybe even higher than normal. I experienced no collapse.

I have obtained injectable test and will start a 3 month trial of 150-200mg/week within the next 2 weeks.

[Picton]

Lower Triglycerides

• Niacin
• Red Yeast Rice
• Omega-3 Fatty Acids
• Pantethine http://www.pantethine.net/ (Pantothenic acid)=B5, (Pantethine is not B5)
• Fiber

================================

/

From a source I found elsewhere, I have been taking 3 x 15g of Psyllium (Isphagula) husk as fibre for a couple of months now, and so far it has had ZERO impact on my Triglycerides (still 3.5 mmol/L) Shame, as I was lead to believe dramatic reductions were possible :-(

Due to many comments around on immune system suppression in over 50year olds, I have cut back fish oil to occasional doses only (once every couple of days, rather like eating fish would give!) Who knows, maybe my Trig level will RISE now!!

[JanSz]

Lab Results: 6/21/2010 1:15 PM 6/21/2010
AGE: 24 M



Glucose, Serum 86 mg/dL 65-99
Uric Acid, Serum 5.3 mg/dL 2.4-8.2
BUN 17 mg/dL 5-26
Creatinine, Serum 0.95 mg/dL 0.76-1.27
eGFR >59 mL/min/1.73 >59 01

BUN/Creatinine Ratio 18 8-27 01
Sodium, Serum 138 mmol/L 135-145 I'm taking florinef, perhaps I can handle a little more salt.
Potassium, Serum 4.0 mmol/L 3.5-5.2 Been supplementing 750mg K-DUR Time release potassium/day
Chloride, Serum 103 mmol/L 97-108
Carbon Dioxide, Total 21 mmol/L 20-32
Calcium, Serum 9.3 mg/dL 8.7-10.2
Phosphorus, Serum 3.9 mg/dL 2.5-4.5
Protein, Total, Serum 6.7 g/dL 6.0-8.5
Albumin, Serum 4.5 g/dL 3.5-5.5
Globulin, Total 2.2 g/dL 1.5-4.5


A/G Ratio 2.0 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin, Total 0.8 mg/dL 0.0-1.2
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 63 IU/L 25-150
LDH 118 IU/L 100-250
AST (SGOT) 20 IU/L 0-40
ALT (SGPT) 21 IU/L 0-55

Cholesterol, Total 100 mg/dL 100-199 Yikes! Lowest it's ever been!
Triglycerides 133 mg/dL 0-149
HDL Cholesterol 30 Low mg/dL >39 Pretty low!

Perhaps the fact that I'm taking HCG to stimulate more testosterone release is using up more of my cholesterol to make testosterone. I've been eating a lower fat diet with too much fruit. Will switch back to high fat low carb diet and test again soon.

I suspect low bile flow due to mercury poisoning. I get very tired after fatty meals and have very fatty greasy stools after eating fatty meals as well as chronic constipation that nothing helps. I will supplement oxbile @ 3-9 capsules per day to avoid

VLDL Cholesterol Cal 27 mg/dL 5-40
LDL Cholesterol Calc 43 mg/dL 0-99
T. Chol/HDL Ratio 3.3 ratio units 0.0-5.0
Estimated CHD Risk < 0.5 times avg. 0.0-1.0

WBC 6.1 x10E3/uL 4.0-10.5
RBC 5.39 x10E6/uL 4.20-6.00
Hemoglobin 16.3 g/dL 13.0-18.0
Hematocrit 47.8 % 37.0-55.0
MCV 89 fL 80-98
MCH 30.2 pg 27.0-34.0
MCHC 34.0 g/dL 32.0-36.0
RDW 14.3 % 11.7-15.0
Platelets Note: x10E3/uL 140-415
Unable to perform accurate platelet count due to platelet clumps.
Platelets appear adequate on slide.
Neutrophils 64 % 40-74
Lymphs 28 % 14-46
Monocytes 7 % 4-13
Eos 1 % 0-7
Basos 0 % 0-3
Immature Cells
Neutrophils (Absolute) 3.9 x10E3/uL 1.8-7.8


Iron, Serum 63 ug/dL 40-155
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 284 ug/dL 250-450
UIBC 221 ug/dL 150-375
Iron Saturation 22 % 15-55

Looks good, no hemachromatosis, Ferritin must be high due to inflammation.




Pregnenolone, MS 44 ng/dL
Reference Range:
Adults: <20 - 150 Not too bad, I've been applying 100mg/day TD PREG cream for past 6 weeks. Perhaps I should double or triple the dose and retest in 4-6 weeks.


Dihydrotestosterone 76 ng/dL
Reference Range:
Adult Male: 30 - 85 I'm still suffering from minor hairloss especially if I even tho I'm using spiro/keto hairloss formula, tho it's slowed down very much. Perhaps the progesterone will help.


Testosterone, Serum 390 ng/dL 280-800
Free Testosterone(Direct) 13.4 pg/mL 9.3-26.5
This is weird because I'm taking 100mg/day TD testerone gel from AnewRx and dosed 2-3 hours before getting these labs. Perhaps the gel is not effective on me at all and I've been cruising on HCG only all this time. It was probably 3 days after my last HCG injection.


Vitamin B12 1268 High pg/mL 211-946

Folate (Folic Acid), Serum 8.3 ng/mL >3.0
Indeterminate: 2.2 - 3.0
Deficient: <2.2

LH 1.7 mIU/mL 1.7-8.6
FSH 1.5 mIU/mL 1.5-12.4
OK, this is wierd, because I've been on 100mg/day TD testosterone and this test was takin 2-3 hours after applying. I've also been taking 250IU HCG E3D.
Also I've been taking low dose naltrexone 4.5mg/night for past 8 months. Either, way It's interesting to note that my LH/FSH is not suppressed. It's normally about the same.

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 66.1 ng/mL 32.0-100.0 01

Lookin good. After supplementing 10,000IU/day for 6 weeks. Will probably go back down to 5000IU/day now that it's summer.




Estradiol(non-sensitive) 22.0 pg/mL 7.6-42.6

Estradiol, Sensitive(LabCorp) 7 pg/ml(3-70)

Damn, what should I do about low estrogen? I can't take oral DHEA. maybe the progesterone and more test will help? I have bad ED.


DHEA-Sulfate 232.2 ug/dL 211.0-492.0 - been supplementing 100mg TD DHEA/day for past 6 weeks. Perhaps I should up the dose? by how much I'm no sure?

Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.8 ng/mL 0.0-4.0


Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.2 pg/mL 2.0-4.4
T4,Free(Direct) 1.73 ng/dL 0.82-1.77
Reverse T3 320 pg/mL 90-350
Can anyone interpret this? I have a low temperature.

TSH 1.240 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500
Thyroxine (T4) 8.9 ug/dL 4.5-12.0

Progesterone 0.6 ng/mL 0.2-1.4 up 0.4 since last tested, been supplementing TD prog on and off. Skipped it a day before the test. Will keep up until I get it to top of range. I'll take the cream every day and retest in 2-6 weeks.

Insulin 10.6 uIU/mL 0.0-24.9 Have been eating too much fruit. Aiming to get this down to below 3 by eating low carb diet and exercising.

Magnesium, RBC 6.6 mg/dL 4.2-6.8 I've been taking 400-800mg magnesium/day

My main complaint is low energy, depression, and erectile dysfunction. I tried a low dose of levitra and it doesn't even seem to help. I had sex the other night and it's just not hard enough for sex. I had to pull out and not finish, it was embarassing. What do you think the problem is? Low E2?

I have been off TD testosterone and HCG since the day after this test(2 weeks) and my natural testosterone seems fairly normal, maybe even higher than normal. I experienced no collapse.

I have obtained injectable test and will start a 3 month trial of 150-200mg/week within the next 2 weeks.

Low energy.
Try box or three of Dr John's made Cardio-Fuel
Cardio Fuel 30 day supply
i-Supps price: $75.99, 2/$145.99
-------------------------
Low pregnenolone and progesterone
http://www.dealtime.com/xPO-Allergy-Research-Pregnenolone-150-Mg-By-Allergy-Research-Group-150-Mg-60-Tablets
Pregnenolone 150 Mg By Allergy Research Group (150 Mg 60 Tablets)
$12.29

Eat one or better two pills a day (to start) (you cannot overdose on pregnenolone, similarly as with vit B12).
Retest blood in 3-4 weeks.
You want to see
Pregnenolone~150
Progesterone~1.4
Keep adjusting dose until you get above results.
When you see pregnenolone<100 you are real low

For now I will not touch your low sodium, potassium supplementation and your use of Florinef
But observe this area, you may see some positive changes when preg & prog get higher
-----------------------

Spend one hour/day on a sun, do not put any oils or sunblocks
additionally use
6 drops/day Biotic Research Bio-D-Mulsion Forte, 1drop=2000iu Vit D ($15.20) http://store.agoodvitamin.com/birebiod1oz.html
----------------------
For low cholesterol
4/day Now Foods, DHA-500, 500 DHA / 250 EPA, 180 Softgels
2/day--> B3-Niacin 1000mg/cap from lef.org
----------------------
Estradiol, Sensitive(LabCorp) 7 pg/ml(3-70)
I've also been taking 250IU HCG E3D.
Change to
HCG-shot=500iu/EOD
---------------------
Hemoglobin 16.3 g/dL 13.0-18.0
Hematocrit 47.8 % 37.0-55.0
100mg/day TD testerone gel from AnewRx (2-3hrs before blood draw)
250IU HCG E3D
Dihydrotestosterone 76 ng/dL
Testosterone, Serum 390 ng/dL 280-800
Reverse T3 320 pg/mL 90-350
low temperature.

You have not given SHBG

You will have to make up your mind about couple items.
1-if you raise sufficiently your TotalTestosterone, very likely you will see increase of Hg and you will need phlebotomies.
2-currently you are not absorbing transdermal T sufficiently
a-if you correct your high RT3 there is a chance that you will be absorbing transdermal T
b-if you switch to T-shots, you may face low DHT

---
I have obtained injectable test and will start a 3 month trial of 150-200mg/week within the next 2 weeks.

Post your SHBG I will help you with dose size and goals.

Use only EOD schedule
Use these needles

BD Ultra-Fine II U-100 Insulin Syringes - Short Needle - 31 Gauge 1/2 cc 5/16 inch Box of 90 Price:$18.99

americandiabeteswholesale.com

------------------------------
Reverse T3 320 pg/mL 90-350

This is decission point.

I suggest that you start this (half-assed and at this time really premature) approach, try to use (up to) 50mcg-T3-Cytomel/day
If you are able to stay on that dose, stay on it 2-3 months then do blood test.
Goals: #1(stay alive) then reduce TSH~0, RT3~(0-40) and hold at this level for 9-12 months
If it works you 50mcg-T3 may not be enough to accomplish this task, but I want to see if you can get a head start.
Before you start on T3, do measure over couple days, average and write down:
blood pressure
pulse
temperature
--
Better approch that you should take:
do these tests and prepare list of supplements based on results.
4-6 months latter repeat those test, make corrections to your supplements list.

http://spectracell.com/product-specs/
SpectraCell’s micronutrient testing
SpectraCell’s Lipoprotein Particle Profile™
SpectraCell’s The HS-Omega-3® Index

http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/index.php?option=com_gpanel&Itemid=2&task=view&nav=test&id=47
Essential & Metabolic Fatty Acids Analysis (EMFA)
Hair Analysis

================================================== =============


..

[JanSz]

post #33
http://musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?p=102016#post102016



Yes, this is a very good thread. Thanks for everyone contributing.

It may not be mercury, but something is going on at the point around cholesterol->pregnenolone.

I'm in a similar boat to you hebsie. My total chol has never been above 140. And HDL is usually low. Total Chol has averaged 130 or pretty steady for last 5 years. It was much higher when I was obese, but it was all triglycerides.

Here's what's interesting. As soon I start taking HCG 250IU 2x/week. My testosterone levels go up to a decent level(4-600) but after 6 weeks my total cholesterol has dropped to 100 for the first time! With an HDL of 30. I think it's definitely a scam that low cholesterol is good. Cholesterol is the life force! as long as it's in decent ratio and the trigs aren't too high. I've seen a source claim that as soon as chol goes below 160 men start getting depression and apathy.

That makes me think that my body is naturally downregulating T and adrenal hormones because I'm low on cholesterol... When I bypass it and send the signal to produce more... it works... but it tanks my cholesterol..

Interesting IMHO. One thing I'm thinking about trying is supplemental oxbile w/meals. I've heard that one reason for low chol(whether from mercury or not) is low/impaired bile flow in the liver. Bile is what absorbs and breaks down fats for the manufacture of cholesterol.

Something to consider... Taurine and milk thistle also stimulate bile flow.

Do this test.
http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/index.php?option=com_gpanel&Itemid=2&task=view&nav=test&id=4

Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis 2.0 (CDSA 2.0/P)™

This tests have a add ons, check all available boxes.
-----------------------------------------------------
Add these to your supplements list that I posted on previous post:

2/day Borage Oil 1050mg, 240mg GLA, 120 Softgels, NOW Foods

4+4/day Country Life Betaine Hydrochloride with Pepsin -- 600 mg - 250 Tablets

Mucos Wobenzym'N
dose per label, if you feel it works go for advanced dosing
buy large 800tabs jars

1/day Udo's Choice® Super Bifido Plus Probiotic

Jarrow Formulas Bile Acid Factors, 333 mg Quantity: 90

............

[random321]

Testosterone Serum 201 LOW (249-836)
Free testosterone 9.79 (5-21)
%free Testosterone 4.87(1.5-4.20)

ACTH, plasma 12.7(7.2-63.3)

DHEA-Sulfate 198.4 (160-449.0)

Estradiol, Sensitive(Labcorp) <3 LOW (3-70)

Progesterone 0.4 (0.2-1.4)

Cortisol - AM 5.7 LOW (6.2-19.4)

These are my labs on nothing, even though I generally take 25-50mg of TD/preg per day. This day I did not take anything and it was at 11AM in the morning so a little later than I'd prefer for morning labs. The preg doesn't help me much, I still have to eat tons of carbs every couple hours to stick to it and often times 25-50mg puts me over the edge and actually lowers my cortisol. I think my ACTH set point is too low right now. I've developed tons of food allergies and regular allergies since stopping HC and using preg. my digestion no longer works. The worst part is I've developed an allergy to HCG. My body is in pain and aching all over and I've been horribly depressed.

I am going thru an acute crisis(psychological and physical) right now and my health has been declining ever since trying to switch to preg.

Full replacement dose PREG works for me, but I can't afford to take that much and I'm afraid its converting into too much estrogen and prog at the levels it takes to keep me going. It doesn't last through the night.

Anyway, I've made the decision to temporarily go back to HC because I know it works and its proven. If I end up in the ER on TD Full replacement PREG, things are not going to go well when they take me off it.


I'm on 20mg HC/day in 5mg every 4 hours or so. I'm planning on introducing HCG or 100mg/week injectable test to get my levels up and possibly florinef depending on pending aldosterone results.

I have sodium and potassium at the bottom of the range(3.5 and 135 respectively)

What do you think about the low estradiol levels? I took aromasin like 5-6 months ago for a week to lower it. Otherwise I'm on nothing that could lower E2. I actually have a fairly strong sex drive. Is it neccessary for me to raise my testosterone, considering my free test is in the middle of the range?

What are the negative health effects of low E2?

What do you guys think of this? This is my raw unmedicated self on these labs.

I know some of you are going to suggest the prog route, but I gotta go to what I know works for me and whats a little more proven right now to stabilize my health and get out of this acute situation. I've been diligently experimenting with PROG for past 8 months or more without success.

[cumkwakka]

Testosterone Serum 201 LOW (249-836)
Free testosterone 9.79 (5-21)
%free Testosterone 4.87(1.5-4.20)

ACTH, plasma 12.7(7.2-63.3)

DHEA-Sulfate 198.4 (160-449.0)

Estradiol, Sensitive(Labcorp) <3 LOW (3-70)

Progesterone 0.4 (0.2-1.4)

Cortisol - AM 5.7 LOW (6.2-19.4)

These are my labs on nothing, even though I generally take 25-50mg of TD/preg per day. This day I did not take anything and it was at 11AM in the morning so a little later than I'd prefer for morning labs. The preg doesn't help me much, I still have to eat tons of carbs every couple hours to stick to it and often times 25-50mg puts me over the edge and actually lowers my cortisol. I think my ACTH set point is too low right now. I've developed tons of food allergies and regular allergies since stopping HC and using preg. my digestion no longer works. The worst part is I've developed an allergy to HCG. My body is in pain and aching all over and I've been horribly depressed.

I am going thru an acute crisis(psychological and physical) right now and my health has been declining ever since trying to switch to preg.

Full replacement dose PREG works for me, but I can't afford to take that much and I'm afraid its converting into too much estrogen and prog at the levels it takes to keep me going. It doesn't last through the night.

Anyway, I've made the decision to temporarily go back to HC because I know it works and its proven. If I end up in the ER on TD Full replacement PREG, things are not going to go well when they take me off it.


I'm on 20mg HC/day in 5mg every 4 hours or so. I'm planning on introducing HCG or 100mg/week injectable test to get my levels up and possibly florinef depending on pending aldosterone results.

I have sodium and potassium at the bottom of the range(3.5 and 135 respectively)

What do you think about the low estradiol levels? I took aromasin like 5-6 months ago for a week to lower it. Otherwise I'm on nothing that could lower E2. I actually have a fairly strong sex drive. Is it neccessary for me to raise my testosterone, considering my free test is in the middle of the range?

What are the negative health effects of low E2?

What do you guys think of this? This is my raw unmedicated self on these labs.

I know some of you are going to suggest the prog route, but I gotta go to what I know works for me and whats a little more proven right now to stabilize my health and get out of this acute situation. I've been diligently experimenting with PROG for past 8 months or more without success.

energy

get back on HC 20 mg daily

natural sources raw thyroid or thyro complex 1-3 tabs daily read reviews on iherb based on body temperature adjust dosage

dr schulze's superfood plus or energy revitalization system by enzymatic therapy to cover vitamin needs, stay on 12.000 iu vitamin d you are using now

this combo should help in bringing up your natural T levels

do a colon cleanse with dr schulze intestinal formula #1 and #2 and clear the gut

hopefully e2 will come up once you do the above, try this for 2 months or so
superfood and raw thyroid will garuanteed give you energy along with the HC

if e2 doesn't come up start with 100 mg shots per week this is also good stuff, but also use the above

optionally you can add in some reset ad for extra adrenal support (glandulars and oral preg)

[random321]

Thanks. I just got aldosterone labs and they came back HIGH.

Aldosterone 65.9 (0.0-30.0)

Renin 3.56 (1.31-3.95)

Standing 30 minutes prior and while blood drawn, under emotional stress - no salt fasting. Potassium 3.5 Sodium 135 (both bottom of range)

I'm worried I may have congestive heart failure. Either that or extreme stress, or low sodium from low E2 is causing this elevation. Getting an echocardiogram the doc ordered today.

I was also recent diagnosed with spondylolisthesis of l5s1 which could be caused by a minor fracture due to low E2. Also costachondritis, which can be microfractures of the ribs/breast bone.

[chemman]

Testosterone Serum 201 LOW (249-836)
Free testosterone 9.79 (5-21)
%free Testosterone 4.87(1.5-4.20)

ACTH, plasma 12.7(7.2-63.3)

DHEA-Sulfate 198.4 (160-449.0)

Estradiol, Sensitive(Labcorp) <3 LOW (3-70)

Progesterone 0.4 (0.2-1.4)

Cortisol - AM 5.7 LOW (6.2-19.4)

These are my labs on nothing, even though I generally take 25-50mg of TD/preg per day. This day I did not take anything and it was at 11AM in the morning so a little later than I'd prefer for morning labs. The preg doesn't help me much, I still have to eat tons of carbs every couple hours to stick to it and often times 25-50mg puts me over the edge and actually lowers my cortisol. I think my ACTH set point is too low right now. I've developed tons of food allergies and regular allergies since stopping HC and using preg. my digestion no longer works. The worst part is I've developed an allergy to HCG. My body is in pain and aching all over and I've been horribly depressed.

I am going thru an acute crisis(psychological and physical) right now and my health has been declining ever since trying to switch to preg.

Full replacement dose PREG works for me, but I can't afford to take that much and I'm afraid its converting into too much estrogen and prog at the levels it takes to keep me going. It doesn't last through the night.

Anyway, I've made the decision to temporarily go back to HC because I know it works and its proven. If I end up in the ER on TD Full replacement PREG, things are not going to go well when they take me off it.


I'm on 20mg HC/day in 5mg every 4 hours or so. I'm planning on introducing HCG or 100mg/week injectable test to get my levels up and possibly florinef depending on pending aldosterone results.

I have sodium and potassium at the bottom of the range(3.5 and 135 respectively)

What do you think about the low estradiol levels? I took aromasin like 5-6 months ago for a week to lower it. Otherwise I'm on nothing that could lower E2. I actually have a fairly strong sex drive. Is it neccessary for me to raise my testosterone, considering my free test is in the middle of the range?

What are the negative health effects of low E2?

What do you guys think of this? This is my raw unmedicated self on these labs.

I know some of you are going to suggest the prog route, but I gotta go to what I know works for me and whats a little more proven right now to stabilize my health and get out of this acute situation. I've been diligently experimenting with PROG for past 8 months or more without success.


I would not mess around with low T and E2. From what I have uncovered, Estradiol is just plain critical for bone and joint health. And I am speaking from lots of experience. It can even get down to the genetic level, like in my case, where an extended period of time with abnormally low estradiol allows the expression of pro-inflammatory genes that eventually never get turned off. In my case it appears to be a form of an autoimmune disease called ankylosing spondylitis that was instigated by brief [2 weeks] usage of "low-dose" arimidex. Sound familiar? It really sucks.

IF you go on TRT, the anabolic effects of T should help balance out the catabolic effects of the HC.

Did you ever get on a therapy and feel well? Like TRT + HC?

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[chilln]

Check out my recent post in my labs thread for a more probable cause. Low testosterone and low E2 may be more connected to my recent bone problems. May be causing other problems as well.

http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?2686-Test-results-in-will-you-give-me-feedback/page4

I'll duplicate what I wrote in that thread, ie:



You and your medical professional adviser overlooked several aspects of the process of boosting resting metabolic rate.

1) It takes years of too low T and too low E2 (eg: from too high cortisol) for bones to go porous.

2) Introduction of thyroid hormones is just as important as preg. You got stuck on preg. Had you introduced the thyroid hormones then your cortisol levels would have returned to optimal and your testsoterone and E2 levels would have risen considerably.

From Cortisol Boost 101 (http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/content.php?118-cortisol-boost-101/edit):



.....b) If your body requires repeated applications of "top up" doses, it can become annoying, in which case discuss with your medical professional adviser to consider switching from pregnenolone top-up dosing during the day, to pregnenolone replacement dosing during the day - for a few weeks. Once you can keep your pregnenolone levels relatively high all day (let them lower at night to get to sleep) with only a "convenient" number of doses (you define this) then it's time to introduce thyroid hormones to get your cells to start absorbing the extra cortisol you're creating with all that extra pregnenolone.


3) Failure to switch from replacement dosing back to top up dosing after introducing thyroid hormones.

Had you been working with a medical professional adviser with some knowledge of hormones, he would have limited your run of replacement dosing.


And now I'll close this thread because we've diverted this discussion into a repeat of that "hip replacement" thread.

.

[chilln]

thread closed