Less is more?

[Bioman3131]

I have been on TRT for three years now and have finally reached a point where I feel like things are truly perfect. During this journey my levels have been as low as 123 and as high as almost double the top of the normal range. Now they are right in the middle. When I first started I thought as I am sure many do that more is better and was always worried that my doctor would lower my dose. I am glad that he did. For me the higher dose and accompanying higher levels were almost as bad as it was before I started TRT. Believe it or not at a higher dose I had a lot of the same issues that I had when my levels were rock bottom not to mention a high hematocrit and hemoglobin. At this lower dose things are absolutely the best they have ever been. For me less is defiantly more. Anyone have a similar experience?

[JackBauer]

Interesting topic for me right now...

I've been on shots for over a year now - tried everything from generic TCyp, to DepoT... IM, Subcutaneous... 1x a week, 2x, EOD... Varying dossages.

My T levels are decent now.

Still suffering from EQ issues... Although in the last 2 weeks or so I've had improved erections. Not where I need to be, in fact nowhere close... But better overall than probably 95% of where I've been in the last 2+ years.

Has me wondering if it has something to do with time... Time for my equipment to get use to the healthy T levels.....

[chilln]

For me less is defiantly more. Anyone have a similar experience?

and


Has me wondering if it has something to do with time... Time for my equipment to get use to the healthy T levels.....


Over the years I've been able to gradually reduce my levels of my supps and still get the same symptom improvements / lab metrics.

There's a point of diminishing return - ie: I won't be able to reduce all my supps to zero (I hope that's obvious to you all).

HOWEVER, I have added small dosages of other supps (some controlled substances, others over-the-counter) to further refine my hormone balance - so I cannot guarantee that had I maintained the same list of supplements as when I first started, that I would still have the same outcome.

The results didn't really improve over time, it just takes me less of each supp to get to the same point. And it takes a wider range of supps to get me to this point.

###

I think the major big deal is that some people don't have the persistence to find a medical professional adviser who will agree to provide the requisitions for the wide variety of labs which it takes to optimize the many subtle effects of hormones.

I think the second big deal is that many of us aren't monitoring the effectiveness of over-the-counter supps, and minimizing those too.

###

Just monitoring total testosterone, SHBG and albumin (via serum or urine) are never enough. It's the remaining labs and symptoms which help to tune us optimally.

[00slotiv]

I have been on TRT for three years now and have finally reached a point where I feel like things are truly perfect. During this journey my levels have been as low as 123 and as high as almost double the top of the normal range. Now they are right in the middle. When I first started I thought as I am sure many do that more is better and was always worried that my doctor would lower my dose. I am glad that he did. For me the higher dose and accompanying higher levels were almost as bad as it was before I started TRT. Believe it or not at a higher dose I had a lot of the same issues that I had when my levels were rock bottom not to mention a high hematocrit and hemoglobin. At this lower dose things are absolutely the best they have ever been. For me less is defiantly more. Anyone have a similar experience?

Bioman,

How was your mood, your attitude,your outlook with higher versus lower levels? It is great to hear you feel you have arrived. I am hopefully getting closer myself.

After a year on TRT, I had three weeks where I felt like I hadn't taken any T and had labs showing lowered levels each time, bottoming out to around the middle of the youthful range. I had been between approximately top of range for my age to over top for youthful during the week but for some reason it was coming down.

Unlike your case where your doctor tried to take the level down some, mine did it on its own and it may as well dropped to 300 the way my mood was. Everything else was good. I've added another 40 % T and that took care of that.

I think that levels like you have might be fine for me sexually, physically and for energy but mentally (confidence, aggressiveness, less likely to be depressed) is where I personally felt the best affect of testosterone at higher levels. For me that is where T has "earned it's money".

Well your three year wait is over and that is good. I hope a year from now you are doing as well. Congratulations.

Bob

[anyman]

From my own experience it is not that easy. Thought I had one in Dr Shippen, who was straight enough to say that he has no idea why I am still dealing with fatigue issues even though T & E2 are better. I've pushed for deeper checking of adrenals & thyroid, but we're not going there.

On the local front, the Drs are of the "well, you're in range" type, which we all know can be counterproductive at best. Most mean well, but can't or won't get out of a very narrow comfort zone.

Where can one find such a Dr? The last I checked, I couldn't find a site listing "Drs who will listen to patients, not remain stuck in dogma or the past and be open minded, but who are also knowledgeable, creative, affordable and within reasonable travel distance".

Seriously, it it not that easy a feat even if one is not like me & resents greatly having to devote huge amounts of time & effort in a vain attempt to live a normal life. Not every Dr is a Crisler or Shippen. In fact, in my experience precious few are.

[hardasnails1973]

dude its not rocket science..If e2, T, dht, in check then look to adrenal/thyroid, your adrenals appear optimal its just now that they have been elevated for so long that it smoked out your thyroid which is trying to keep up the best it can but might need alittle help. if you have a genetic disposition (mom, dad, relatives having thyroid like symptoms) then the high cortisol may have triggered a thyroid malfunction.

[Bioman3131]

[QUOTE=00slotiv;30997]Bioman,

How was your mood, your attitude,your outlook with higher versus lower levels? It is great to hear you feel you have arrived. I am hopefully getting closer myself.




At the low levels I felt like the wind had been taken out of my sails. Most days I was very tired. I had to take at least a two hour nap after work and then slept all night. During the day I had to keep pushing myself to keep going. This went on for over ten years before being diagnosed. The mood was okay most days. At the higher level I just didn't feel right. I definatley did not notice anything positive about be at this level. I didn't notice much change in my mood or outlook.