Adrenal fatigue protocol I'm on and it's effects

[chipdouglas]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've posted on here. Nursing school wraps up a good deal of my time, hence less time to be spent over the web.


A short summary of what I've been complaining about for the last 10 years : no libido, poor concentration and focus, short term memory going blank when under stress, reactive hypoglycemia episodes around 3 PM, not every day though. I've noticed that it happens mostly when doing manual labor. It still happens when not doing manual labor around 3 PM, but it happens much more often when doing any kind of physical work around that time of day. However, many times I've taken BG a reading at the time of symptoms, yet BG didn't show hypoglycemia. I've found this on WIKI called : Adrenergic postprandial symdrome : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_hypoglycemia scroll to bottom of page.

Protocol I've been put on is as follows : 2000 vit C in the AM + half a tsp sea salt in a glass of water + 200 mg pantethine, then 4000-5000 mg vit C around 2 PM + 200 pantethine, since what seems to be some form of blood sugar drop consistently happens around 3 PM, in order to prevent going into that state, which sure drains me.

Now, I'm followed by a doc for this, just so you guys know.

Initially I was put on high dose Vit. C alone and didn't really notice any change in sex drive, but I was more composed within, since I'm usualy under a great deal of inner tension.

However, when he asked me whether I had any salt craving and that I answered yes, he put me on sea salt to be taken as some do here as first thing in the morning. So vit.C alone didn't do anything for sex drive, but then when I added sea salt (although I didn't expect this) sex drive went up noticeably and I also felt much more relax within. Forgive this graphic detail, but ejaculate volume also strikingly increased. A the time I made these observations, I was still on 1000 mg Vit C in the AM (he increased dosage to 2000 in the am later on) and sea salt consistently brought about same effects as mentioned right above, but when I started on 2000 mg along with the sea salt drink, sex drive went back down.

Another bebefit that I've experienced taking high dose Vit C is that I have far less aches and pains.

So I'm wondering : why is sea salt doing this to my sex drive ? I've read from some website that sea salt has something to do with serotonin, but then, I have no idea whether I can trust this source or not.

I've also seen different views (we need facts not views) where some claim sea salt contains a LOT more than just sodium, while a dietician You tube video I saw a while ago said that there's no actual difference between sea salt and table salt (exept perhaps for the added iodine content).

Also, aren't many of you on here confused over whether adrenal fatigue exists or not ?? Some MDs speak about this as though it truly exists, while others say it's BS anti-aging crap.

Who's right and who's wrong here ? I don't mind being treated for AF so far as I'm not being treated for something that doesn't exist, or that should be referred to under a different name.

One other relevant question about AF (assuming there's such a thing as AF):

For those of you who have been treated for AF and that were complaining of low sex drive, how has AF treatment helped toward recovering said libido ?

I really don't mean any disrespect towards any doctors out there, but this AF debate (going on in many people's mind I'm afraid) is far from being clear from any ambiguity. I wish it was somehow easier to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

[chilln]

Also, aren't many of you on here confused over whether adrenal fatigue exists or not ?? Some MDs speak about this as though it truly exists, while others say it's BS anti-aging crap.

Your adrenal glands make hormones.

Here's a diagram (from Rhein Labs) which shows the split between adrenal hormones and sex hormones.
http://www.rheinlabs.com/Rhien_Images/05_IL/05_SterPath.pdf

When your adrenal glands don't make enough hormones, you have adrenal insufficiency.

If you believe that everyone's adrenal glands will always make sufficient hormones all day, forever and ever until they die, then that's called denial. That's the same as saying that broken arms don't ever happen.

Organs do experience partial organ failure. That happens to adrenal glands too.

Whether someone chooses to call it adrenal insufficiency, or adrenal fatigue, or sprechen-munchen-housen, or whatever, is irrelevant.

The partial failure of the adrenal glands does occur, it occurs as a result of excess physical and/or mental stressors, over an extended duration, and the result is too few adrenal hormones.

And the problem is in the vast majority of cases correctable. Usually by minimizing physical and mental stressors, and lots of deep sleep. In more extreme cases some supplementation of adrenal hormones (DHEA and/or cortisol) is used to further reduce the amount of work the adrenals need to do during the day - but only for a short duration while the adrenals recover.

The adrenals heal mostly during deep sleep, a little during light sleep, and not much during the day.

[crazycrew]

Is there a way to measure or guage hormones to be able to diagnose AF?

[anyman]

This is a prime example of what confuses me. Many here who's opinions I respect feel adrenal fatigue is a real & substantive issue. However, on the more "traditional" medicine side I've come across many articles saying just the opposite. Compounding the issue is what seems to me to be a prevalence of charlatans on the issue. Do a simple google search for AF and one is immediately confronted with a number of "yeah, right" sites & links.

How do we separate truth from BS? Where is the line between cutting edge & hype? This puzzles me greatly.

[wondering]

I am not a doctor. Chilln's post makes sense from simple logic standpoint - do we really believe that our bodies will always perform sufficiently over our lifetimes?

Adrenal issues are a contraindicated condition in Thyroid supplementation and I experienced this firsthand. I took Armour and went downhill fast and hard. Supplementing w/ HC got me back on the road to recovery. I did not have flat-out Addison's disease, but clearly I had issues as the Armour revealed.

So call it what you want. Our adrenals glands sometimes arent performing optimally, let alone sufficiently - why would anyone assume that they would in all people, all the time. Again, not a Dr., but anyone that assumes this seems to have their head in the sand.

Treating w/ HC isn't cutting edge. If I'm not mistaken its been around forever, but has been ignored by many Drs in recent years. Go back a few decades and I believe it was much more common. But we have all these shiny new colored pills to take nowadays, so it has taken a back seat to them. Why treat the condition, when we can treat the symptoms (sarcasm).

... and to your specific case, if you have AF - HC is the way to go. Don't take too much Vit. C or you can end up with a copper deficiency.


This is a prime example of what confuses me. Many here who's opinions I respect feel adrenal fatigue is a real & substantive issue. However, on the more "traditional" medicine side I've come across many articles saying just the opposite. Compounding the issue is what seems to me to be a prevalence of charlatans on the issue. Do a simple google search for AF and one is immediately confronted with a number of "yeah, right" sites & links.

How do we separate truth from BS? Where is the line between cutting edge & hype? This puzzles me greatly.

[hardasnails1973]

I had a long talk with chip and we cleared alot of things up...:thumbup:
BTW low adrenal out put = copper biounavailablity been down that road !!
Anyman every think that kicking in some armour or thyroid support could help to tone down those adrenals?
Might want to start feeding the thyroid with some PMG's to help it to recovery.
If too much cortisol slows down the adrenals, your engines reviving, but you are burning more gas then you need to so you may want to put a govenor on the throttle..GET MY POINT !!

[chipdouglas]

Thanks Chilln, that sure was a good a concise post, but my actual query was and still is : why it is that sea salt boost my sex drive--what happens that causes this to take place ?

[hardasnails1973]

60-70% of the population is dehydrated even though you drink fluids we lack the essential minerals. Sea salts contain alot of these minerals that are flushed out by the (tea, soda, coffee, beer,and other poisoin we put in our bodies) Table salt is not the same as sea salt so you could have a organic sodium defieincy due to all the years of abuse to our bodie as well as the medical community brain washing us that salt is bad for us. When I am talking about dehydration I am talking about at the cellular level. One of the ways Natural practioners heal people is through using cell salts that help repair the electrical system of your cells.

[thenxtgrt1]

Is there a way to measure or guage hormones to be able to diagnose AF?

I have pondered the same question. There seems to be no true way to pinpoint AF. Quite a few are of the opinion that cortisol testing is unreliable/inconsistent.

I often see DHEA/pregnenolone connection to AF. How do these 2 hormones play a part in this condition?

[JanSz]

I had a long talk with chip and we cleared alot of things up...:thumbup:
BTW low adrenal out put = copper biounavailablity been down that road !!
Anyman every think that kicking in some armour or thyroid support could help to tone down those adrenals? Might want to start feeding the thyroid with some PMG's to help it to recovery.
If too much cortisol slows down the adrenals, your engines reviving, but you are burning more gas then you need to so you may want to put a govenor on the throttle..GET MY POINT !!
http://www.drlera.com/MINERALS/copper.htm
Copper:

IMPORTANCE:
Helps oxidize glucose and release energy.
Helps the body absorb iron.
Aids the thyroid gland in balancing and secreting hormones.
Carries oxygen in the blood stream.
Supplies the body's tissues with oxygen
Increases the body's energy levels.
Aids in nerve and brain function
Needed for the functioning of the amino acid, tyrosine.
Essential for making red blood cells.
Helps the body absorb iron.
Helps tyrosine work as a pigment factor
Helps supply oxygen to the brain.
Enzyme component
Necessary for the synthesis of the hormone adrenaline.
Associated with intestinal enzyme activity.
Acts as a brain stimulant
Copper antagonizes manganese ions.
Copper level in the body parallels estrogen levels.
Copper is a natural yeast fighter
Copper improves epinephrine, norepinephrine and dopamine.
helps oxidize Vitamin C and works with Vitamin C to form Elastin, a chief component of the Elastin muscle fibers throughout the body; aids in the formation of red blood cells


DEFICIENCY SYMPTOMS:

Physical Symptoms of Low Copper:

Not enough oxygen in the cells
Lowered levels of HDL cholesterol
Skin problems
Swollen ankles
Anemia
Low copper causes the cells to suffocate and lack oxygen
Low copper levels linked to low enkephalins produced in the brain.
Psychological Symptoms of Low Copper:

Auditory hallucinations
Depression
Binge eaters have been found to have lower levels.
Causes of Low Copper:

Refining white flour
Alkaline medium inhibits copper.
Copper deficiency occurs as a result of the administration of total parenteral nutrition ( Nutritional intravenous feeding).
Excess accumulates in liver, kidneys and brain.
Phytates hinder absorption
High levels of zinc, iron, calcium and manganese interfere with copper absorption
THE MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT CAUSES LOW COPPER:

Conditions are rare, but common in infants who are premature.

Menkes' syndrome is a hereditary disorder causing copper deficiency. Symptoms: kinky hair, mental retardation, and low copper level in the blood and a failure to synthesize the enzymes that require copper.

HIGH COPPER

Copper levels are more often too high than too low. High copper can be toxic.

Physical Symptoms of High Copper:

Headaches
Hypoglycemia
Increased heart rate
Nausea
Copper deposits in the brain and liver causing damage.
Damage to the kidneys
Inhibit urine production
Causes anemia
Causes hair loss in women
High copper interferes with zinc, which is needed to manufacture digestive enzymes. Many high copper people dislike protein and are drawn to high-carbohydrate diets because they have difficulty digesting protein foods.
Excessive copper in children is associated with hyperactive behavior, learning disorders such as dyslexia, ADD and infections such as ear.
Psychological Symptoms of High Copper:

Autism type symptoms
Depression
Hallucinations
Hyperactivity
Insomnia
Paranoia
Personality changes
Psychosis
Schizophrenic type symptoms
Overstimulation
Disperception of the senses, time, body, self and others.
Produces hypomanic states
Detachment from reality
Causes of High Copper:

Excess estrogen in the meat supply ( estrogen used as a growth hormone in the meat industry was discontinued in the 80's and replaced with testosterone, etc.)
Birth control pill
Use of prescription medications containing copper.
Smoking
Too much copper in drinking water
Zinc and manganese deficiency raises copper levels.
Copper lowers the histamine levels.
It takes 3 months to lower the level in the body.
__________________________________________________ _____________

THE MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT CAUSE HIGH COPPER:

Wilson's Disease is a condition that causes copper to accumulate in the tissues and cause extensive damage. Affects 1 in 30,000 people. The liver does not secrete copper into the blood or excrete copper into the bile. Low blood levels, high in the brain, eyes and liver causes cirrhosis. First symptoms: brain damage, tremors, headaches, inability to speak, incoordination and psychosis.

Treatment:

The administration of total parenteral nutrition (nutritional intravenous feeding).
An important way to reduce high copper levels is to enhance the activity of the adrenal glands. The adrenals cause the liver to secrete ceruloplasmin, which binds and removes copper. Adrenal underactivity causes a deficiency of available copper, and allows unbound copper to build up in the tissues. Adrenal glandular substance is also frequently helpful.
Exercise temporarily stimulates the adrenals, which helps eliminate copper. One needs to keep exercising or the copper toxicity symptoms, fatigue, mood swings and depression will return.
Temporary controls; coffee, caffeine in soda and some drugs

[joe143]

Your adrenal glands make hormones.

Here's a diagram (from Rhein Labs) which shows the split between adrenal hormones and sex hormones.
http://www.rheinlabs.com/Rhien_Images/05_IL/05_SterPath.pdf

When your adrenal glands don't make enough hormones, you have adrenal insufficiency.

If you believe that everyone's adrenal glands will always make sufficient hormones all day, forever and ever until they die, then that's called denial. That's the same as saying that broken arms don't ever happen.

Organs do experience partial organ failure. That happens to adrenal glands too.

Whether someone chooses to call it adrenal insufficiency, or adrenal fatigue, or sprechen-munchen-housen, or whatever, is irrelevant.

The partial failure of the adrenal glands does occur, it occurs as a result of excess physical and/or mental stressors, over an extended duration, and the result is too few adrenal hormones.

And the problem is in the vast majority of cases correctable. Usually by minimizing physical and mental stressors, and lots of deep sleep. In more extreme cases some supplementation of adrenal hormones (DHEA and/or cortisol) is used to further reduce the amount of work the adrenals need to do during the day - but only for a short duration while the adrenals recover.

The adrenals heal mostly during deep sleep, a little during light sleep, and not much during the day.


Chilln, you have any referances/links to information on how the adrenals heal themselves?

[Joejoebaggins]

Chip, are you taking all that Vit C to increase your blood sugar? Doses that large don't seem to absorb well. Are you getting gnarly diarrhea from larger doses?

[chipdouglas]

Chip, are you taking all that Vit C to increase your blood sugar? Doses that large don't seem to absorb well. Are you getting gnarly diarrhea from larger doses?

The point you raised is also mine, but the doctor that's coaching me would read mistrust in his protocol into this, should I asked him about this. I'm having a phone appointment with him in an hour, I'll see what he tells me then.

So far erection has improved but not libido, but then I'm not really surprised erection has improved since I take pantethine, which plays a role in Ach biosynthesis : http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:4TLM8gUB2s8J:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantothenic_acid+pantothenic+acid+acetylcholine+bi osynthesis&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=ca

So can I assume erectile improvement stems from increased cortisol, I'm not so sure.

I'm a bit down in the dumps today cause I've been experiencing what seems to be reactive hypoglycemia at other times of day, whereas It'd usually be felt round 3 PM. It happened to me this AM while attending a physiology class on thyroid, obviously, not the best of times.

Whatever it is I have (which may indeed be AF), is most debilitating.

I'm also concerned that high dose vit C might increase iron absorption, unless there's a rate limiting factor preventing this from taking place. My ferritin's already top end of the range, and I'm not sure an increase in this last would be healthy.

[chipdouglas]

Spoke to my doc yesterday, he took me off pantethine cause it was overstimulating me ;I was getting reactive hypoglycemia at times of day I used not to, that is in the late AM in addition to in late PM, whereas I'd only get late PM before that. I was also getting more palpitation. So I'm still on high dose C, which makes me feel good + a tspfull sea salt in the morning, having nuts before going to bed and then around 2 PM to keep BG steady.

He had order adrenoplex and thyroplex + C support

He said that my case was challenging.

[xxOz]

Hi Chip,

It would be great if you had any updates to post on your progress. How are things going? I am all :bigear: