Latest Test Results / Switching to Injectible Test

[GottaGetIt]

Been on TRT for approximately 3 months. Haven't noticed any differences
in the way I feel, physically, mentally etc. No libido at all.
Started with test in the 500 range, went down into 300 range then started TRT
with 1ml 10%, switched to 2ml 10% and 1/2 Arimidex EOD
(went to .25 EOD after repeated suggestions to others on this forum)

SHBG 25.7 (13.0 - 74.0)
Test 1036 (262 - 1593)
Free Test (calc)2.2 (1.6 - 23.0)
Free Test % 0.2 (1.2 - 3.2)
Bio Avail (calc) 51.0 (36.0 - 562.0)
Bio Avail % 4.9 (28.0 - 75.0)

Estradiol U/S 48 (<or= 29)

My Estradiol went down from 105. When I initially got my bloodwork
before TRT it had registered < 10.

My free and bio avail went down on latest bloodwork.
Doc thought that I had some odd changes this time and
that I convert a lot of Test to Estr.

I'm switching to injectible Test this week from the compounded
creme to see where my results go.

Any wisdom from experience and knowledge is appreciated.

[maurice17]

when you say it didnt work for you, are you talking about only how you felt or your numbers as well. I have good numbers on the gel but still dont feel much different I wonder if despite having T in the upper third it might be worth contemplating the IM route if my symptoms dont improve.

[JanSz]

Been on TRT for approximately 3 months. Haven't noticed any differences
in the way I feel, physically, mentally etc. No libido at all.
Started with test in the 500 range, went down into 300 range then started TRT
with 1ml 10%, switched to 2ml 10% and 1/2 Arimidex EOD
(went to .25 EOD after repeated suggestions to others on this forum)

SHBG 25.7 (13.0 - 74.0)
Test 1036 (262 - 1593)
Free Test (calc)2.2 (1.6 - 23.0)
Free Test % 0.2 (1.2 - 3.2)
Bio Avail (calc) 51.0 (36.0 - 562.0)
Bio Avail % 4.9 (28.0 - 75.0)

Estradiol U/S 48 (<or= 29)

My Estradiol went down from 105. When I initially got my bloodwork
before TRT it had registered < 10.

My free and bio avail went down on latest bloodwork.
Doc thought that I had some odd changes this time and
that I convert a lot of Test to Estr.

I'm switching to injectible Test this week from the compounded
creme to see where my results go.

Any wisdom from experience and knowledge is appreciated.

SHBG 25.7 (13.0 - 74.0)
Test 1036 (262 - 1593)
Free Test (calc)2.2 (1.6 - 23.0)
Free Test % 0.2 (1.2 - 3.2)
Bio Avail (calc) 51.0 (36.0 - 562.0)
Bio Avail % 4.9 (28.0 - 75.0)

Estradiol U/S 48 (<or= 29)

The tests in red are wrong, possibly other items are wrong, newer know.
Your lack of progress is due to high EStradiol, may be other that you did not tested.

Using TT=1036, SHBG=25.7 and chart, your
FreeT~270

You testosterone is just right.

Definitely check your DHT.
You want
E2(25-29)
DHT(60-90)
---------------------
What is interesting/odd is that you have got such a high E2 while on transdermal testosterone.
Are you fat, are you applying all transdermal on your belly fat?
You should have much more E2 problems while on T-injections,
unless you do those injections daily.

I would use DHT behavior when deciding between T-transdermal or T-shots.

Have you posted more complete list of blood tests, where is it?
.
/

/

[GottaGetIt]

The tests in red are wrong, possibly other items are wrong, newer know.
Your lack of progress is due to high EStradiol, may be other that you did not tested.

Using TT=1036, SHBG=25.7 and chart, your
FreeT~270

You testosterone is just right.

Definitely check your DHT.
You want
E2(25-29)
DHT(60-90)
---------------------
/

Good info. Thanks.
DHT had been on the list but for some reason was dropped.
(don't remember the reason)

[chilln]

Been on TRT for approximately 3 months. Haven't noticed any differences
in the way I feel, physically, mentally etc. No libido at all.
Started with test in the 500 range, went down into 300 range then started TRT
with 1ml 10%, switched to 2ml 10% and 1/2 Arimidex EOD
(went to .25 EOD after repeated suggestions to others on this forum)

SHBG 25.7 (13.0 - 74.0)
Test 1036 (262 - 1593)
Free Test (calc)2.2 (1.6 - 23.0)
Free Test % 0.2 (1.2 - 3.2)
Bio Avail (calc) 51.0 (36.0 - 562.0)
Bio Avail % 4.9 (28.0 - 75.0)

Estradiol U/S 48 (<or= 29)

My Estradiol went down from 105. When I initially got my bloodwork
before TRT it had registered < 10.

My free and bio avail went down on latest bloodwork.
Doc thought that I had some odd changes this time and
that I convert a lot of Test to Estr.

I'm switching to injectible Test this week from the compounded
creme to see where my results go.

Any wisdom from experience and knowledge is appreciated.


What, no HCG ? Is there a reason for the omission ?

I suspect your medical professional adviser may not be aware that your testicles are needed to produce pregnenolone, progesterone, androstenedione, and a host of other hormones other than just testosterone. These hormones are very very useful too. You need all of them.

Sure other tissues make some of these hormones too, but the contribution from your testicles is critical to maintain their levels. Their levels will be much lower than those of a healthy youthful male if your testicle have shrunk to raisins from HPTA suppression.

If you need to learn about HPTA suppression, then just ask.

###

Perhaps you may want to discuss with your medical professional adviser to repeat the test, and confirm that your SHBG comes out this low the second time around. It's highly likely to make your life difficult.

###

You seem to have relatively low SHBG for your relatively high amount of total testosterone.

Low SHBG is usually a sign that you will use up your testosterone supply very quickly.

While it's true that the component of testosterone which is bound to SHBG is supposedly difficult to access, it's also true (unfortunately) that when males show up with low SHBG, that their testosterone supply dwindles rapidly.

I do not understand why this is the case. Perhaps the testosterone which is bound to SHBG is actually more bioavailable than we are led to believe ? Nevertheless, the correlation between low SHBG, and rapidly depleted stores of testosterone, shows up too frequently to be a coincidence.

If your testosterone dwindles relatively rapidly, then the solution is to implement frequent injections of lower doses of HCG, and frequent injections of lower doses of testosterone esters (if you abandon testosterone gels).

###

If your testosterone dwindles relatively rapidly, then I would recommend sticking with testosterone gels, and apply them twice per day to maintain your testosterone levels.

The gels will allow you to top up your testosterone more frequently, and less painfully, than testosterone ester injections.

If your testosterone dwindles relatively rapidly, then I would recommend injecting your HCG daily, to maintain your testosterone levels, rather than every second or every third day.

###

Re your arimidex usage - perhaps you may want to discuss with your medical professional adviser to increase it back to 0.5mg EOD (I would recommend 0.25mg every day), to reduce your E2.

[GottaGetIt]

What, no HCG ? Is there a reason for the omission ?
We've discussed it but not introduced it yet. He has me on HGH 1iu 5/2.
The HCG will be the next thing we discuss.



I suspect your medical professional adviser may not be aware that your testicles are needed to produce pregnenolone, progesterone, androstenedione, and a host of other hormones other than just testosterone. These hormones are very very useful too. You need all of them.
I dunno. See above. My doc is an LEF doc but I have no idea what it takes
to get your name on the list. As we all know not all docs are created equal.....


Their levels will be much lower than those of a healthy youthful male if your testicle have shrunk to raisins from HPTA suppression.
I've noticed an slight reduction in size so far which is why I haven't
run immediately to get on HCG. As my general levels get figured out I
have him add additional pieces to the treatment.


If you need to learn about HPTA suppression, then just ask.
I'll do some research. Thanks for the suggestion.


Perhaps you may want to discuss with your medical professional adviser to repeat the test, and confirm that your SHBG comes out this low the second time around. It's highly likely to make your life difficult.
The odd test results this time around are why I'm switching to injectibles; to see if maybe the transdermal application is causing some of my odd results.


You seem to have relatively low SHBG for your relatively high amount of total testosterone.
Low SHBG is usually a sign that you will use up your testosterone supply very quickly.
While it's true that the component of testosterone which is bound to SHBG is supposedly difficult to access, it's also true (unfortunately) that when males show up with low SHBG, that their testosterone supply dwindles rapidly.
I do not understand why this is the case. Perhaps the testosterone which is bound to SHBG is actually more bioavailable than we are led to believe ? Nevertheless, the correlation between low SHBG, and rapidly depleted stores of testosterone, shows up too frequently to be a coincidence.
If your testosterone dwindles relatively rapidly, then the solution is to implement frequent injections of lower doses of HCG, and frequent injections of lower doses of testosterone esters (if you abandon testosterone gels).

Interesting. It is low and it's part of the results that keeps the doc scratching his head. As you know an ED or even EOD implementation is outside 99.9% (my guess) doctors and even most patients protocols. Many that switch to injectibles say that part of the reason is the hassle of having to think about their treatment everyday by having to apply their creme or gel so ED injections wouldn't be considered by most. As I already inject HGH 5 days a week, the only issue for me are more frequent injections with the big ass needles needed for Test. I have heard it suggested that more frequent injections SC instead of IM using an insulin syringe solves that matter.
I'm not yet comfortable with the idea of SC Test because I already am (I think) dealing with high aramotazation (sp) due to TD application. I tend to
believe SC test injections might continue along that same path. I did discuss the matter with my doc and he was against the idea. Though he was less interested initially (but open to) in injectibles over TD.


If your testosterone dwindles relatively rapidly, then I would recommend sticking with testosterone gels, and apply them twice per day to maintain your testosterone levels.
The gels will allow you to top up your testosterone more frequently, and less painfully, than testosterone ester injections.
Which is why I've continued (though only 1x a day application) TD till now.


If your testosterone dwindles relatively rapidly, then I would recommend injecting your HCG daily, to maintain your testosterone levels, rather than every second or every third day.
Interesting.


Re your arimidex usage - perhaps you may want to discuss with your medical professional adviser to increase it back to 0.5mg EOD (I would recommend 0.25mg every day), to reduce your E2.
Already starting that now.

Thanks.

[GottaGetIt]

Compounded cream didn't work for me either. Injecting T-cyp has been a major improvement. Aside from getting results it also is nice to only have to deal with it one day a week. I didn't enjoy having to apply the cream every day and then worry about transferring it to my family.

Improvements are what I seek too (obviously) and the possible transfer is always a concern. With my additional supplementation (HGH) and future supplementation of HCG it still winds up being an everyday thing for me. As long as I see improvement it'll be worth it. If I don't is my biggest worry.

[Wise Guy]

I do not understand why this is the case. Perhaps the testosterone which is bound to SHBG is actually more bioavailable than we are led to believe ? Nevertheless, the correlation between low SHBG, and rapidly depleted stores of testosterone, shows up too frequently to be a coincidence.

.

Chilln, lets combine brains....

One of the telltale signs of someone using steroids(AAS) or any testosterone amounts in the higher range is very low SHBG.

It is common for guys on gear, using 1/2g of T a week to have T levels hovering around the 2000 mark with SHBG single digit.

I have a very strong suspician that this is the bodies defense mechanism. This is the bodies way of trying to rid itself of the excess testosterone from poisoning it.

Thus SHBG drops, and the body is more capable of dumping and metabolizing T out of the body.

So in effect, T bound up by SHBG is actually more useful then we thought, yes, you are right. This would make sense with my above theory also.

[chilln]

One of the telltale signs of someone using steroids(AAS) or any testosterone amounts in the higher range is very low SHBG.

It is common for guys on gear, using 1/2g of T a week to have T levels hovering around the 2000 mark with SHBG single digit.

I have a very strong suspician that this is the bodies defense mechanism. This is the bodies way of trying to rid itself of the excess testosterone from poisoning it.


Yes I looked back over my old results and saw the same trend too.

I commented on it in dano79's thread, here:
http://musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2665