Adding t4 to erfa.

[theturducken]

I know t4 converts to rt3 if there is an issue, but can t3 convert to rt3?

I have high above range free t3 and rt3 on 2grains erfa, yet low total t4 and free t4. I know HAN has mentioned "hyperconverters" and Dr. M is also on a simliar page in regards to total t4.

Some sites suggest and people have added t4 to erfa (taboo, shocking, forbidden, ya I know) and had good results.

I say this b/c if on 2 grains of erfa, if I had a "conversion problem" why wouldn't my t4 be high and my free t3 be low? In this scenario my t3 is above range and my rt3...

Some memebers have here have reported that they felt better adding some t4 to their erfa...id like to hear about that.

[Massa]

I know t4 converts to rt3 if there is an issue, but can t3 convert to rt3?

I have high above range free t3 and rt3 on 2grains erfa, yet low total t4 and free t4. I know HAN has mentioned "hyperconverters" and Dr. M is also on a simliar page in regards to total t4.

Some sites suggest and people have added t4 to erfa (taboo, shocking, forbidden, ya I know) and had good results.

I say this b/c if on 2 grains of erfa, if I had a "conversion problem" why wouldn't my t4 be high and my free t3 be low? In this scenario my t3 is above range and my rt3...

Some memebers have here have reported that they felt better adding some t4 to their erfa...id like to hear about that.
your t3 is above and rt3 = ?

[Drew]

I know t4 converts to rt3 if there is an issue, but can t3 convert to rt3?

I have high above range free t3 and rt3 on 2grains erfa, yet low total t4 and free t4. I know HAN has mentioned "hyperconverters" and Dr. M is also on a simliar page in regards to total t4.

Some sites suggest and people have added t4 to erfa (taboo, shocking, forbidden, ya I know) and had good results.

I say this b/c if on 2 grains of erfa, if I had a "conversion problem" why wouldn't my t4 be high and my free t3 be low? In this scenario my t3 is above range and my rt3...

Some memebers have here have reported that they felt better adding some t4 to their erfa...id like to hear about that.

In general if your T3/Free T3 is higher in the range and T4/FT4 is much lower in the range, your issue is absorbing thyroid hormone at the cellular level (free t3 floats around in the blood stream). This can be from low cortisol, low B12, or low ferritin. Have you had your cortisol levels checked?

[theturducken]

your t3 is above and rt3 = ?




sorry, rt3 is also above range

[theturducken]

In general if your T3/Free T3 is higher in the range and T4/FT4 is much lower in the range, your issue is absorbing thyroid hormone at the cellular level (free t3 floats around in the blood stream). This can be from low cortisol, low B12, or low ferritin. Have you had your cortisol levels checked?

b12 is 1350....above range

ferritin is 165


i'm on 30mg Cortef...temps usually are within .2 degrees on the dr. rind chart.

I guess maybe I should do an am cortisol draw?

[hardasnails1973]

When you have low ft4 and higher ft3 then and on cortef then this is a sign your adrenals are healing. It is common when being on armour or erfa for a long time. It creates an increase in D1 enzyme. Just about every one I know that has been on t4/t3 combo for over a year has this same phenomon that is why after a while checking ft4 is a waste and just go with ft3 levels and total t4

[theturducken]

Han,

total t4 is 6.9 (4.5-12)
ft3 is 4.2 (1.71-3.71) HIGH!
rt3 is 39 (11-32) HIGH


I have been on thyroid/adrenal support for over a year. I think total t4 needs bumped.

[pmgamer18]

I am with Hard on this, when one takes natural desiccated thyroid the body lives it and converts the T4 into T3 very easy and fast my FT4 was low normal for yrs. Once I tried adding T4 a low dose of Synthroid and I felt hyper on it.

If you feel good on what your doing why change it go hit a number on labs. If your in range and feel good don't mess with it.

When you have low ft4 and higher ft3 then and on cortef then this is a sign your adrenals are healing. It is common when being on armour or erfa for a long time. It creates an increase in D1 enzyme. Just about every one I know that has been on t4/t3 combo for over a year has this same phenomon that is why after a while checking ft4 is a waste and just go with ft3 levels and total t4

[theturducken]

I am with Hard on this, when one takes natural desiccated thyroid the body lives it and converts the T4 into T3 very easy and fast my FT4 was low normal for yrs. Once I tried adding T4 a low dose of Synthroid and I felt hyper on it.

If you feel good on what your doing why change it go hit a number on labs. If your in range and feel good don't mess with it.

Phil,

I agree wtih you about going on how I feel and not always numbers on a sheet of paper...but i'm not feeling tip-top and have been looking to reasons. I just want to get thyroid/adrenals tackled before I start lowering my e2 and raising my dhea and all that other stuff.

[pmgamer18]

I have found my high levels of E2 when to go up mess with my Thyroid. You need to address this problem with your Thyroid.

Phil,

I agree wtih you about going on how I feel and not always numbers on a sheet of paper...but i'm not feeling tip-top and have been looking to reasons. I just want to get thyroid/adrenals tackled before I start lowering my e2 and raising my dhea and all that other stuff.

[hardasnails1973]

The problem is that symptoms can over lap with thyroid and estrogens that is why it is imperative that you know what is causing what through clincal testing and a good medical professional adviser. I have had this occur many times that is why I am knocking on variable out at time to see what is doing what.

Testosterone - check
cortisol - check
thyroid - getting there
e2 - good for now
gh - check
gut -Needs majot over haul will take time
Dhea -have BPH not good with dhea.. not good for my body with low cholesterol and converts to e2 too much may try 20 mgs of TD dhea in the future to avoid estrogens
Estrogen metabolites - will check on them coming weeks, using iodoral

[JanSz]

Han,

total t4 is 6.9 (4.5-12)
ft3 is 4.2 (1.71-3.71) HIGH!
rt3 is 39 (11-32) HIGH


I have been on thyroid/adrenal support for over a year. I think total t4 needs bumped.

You have to put aside about a year for this project.

Stop using T4

get your RT3 to about zero
allow your T4 & FT4 fall wherever they wish to fall, it will be very low

Use enough T3 so as to suppress your TSH
TSH~0

Try to add 25mcg-T3 to a dose that shuts down your TSH
Possibly even more.

You will end up around 100mcg-T3/day possibly more
Do not go over 150mcg-T3/day

On this last stage stay about 2-3 months.
You need to verify that you had three months when your RT3 was RT3~0

Then reduce T3 and re-introduce T4 again

On a way back you may want to start with

100mcg-T4
50mcg-T3

Then go by blood tests.

-------------------------

This project takes long time to implement.
During that time you will find a lots of distractions.
Try resisting them.
Write your plan down, look at it from time to time,
specially when you see real good reason to make changes that do not fit your plan.
Stay your course, otherwise waste of time.
.................................................. .........

[theturducken]

You have to put aside about a year for this project.

Stop using T4

get your RT3 to about zero
allow your T4 & FT4 fall wherever they wish to fall, it will be very low

Use enough T3 so as to suppress your TSH
TSH~0

Try to add 25mcg-T3 to a dose that shuts down your TSH
Possibly even more.

You will end up around 100mcg-T3/day possibly more
Do not go over 150mcg-T3/day

On this last stage stay about 2-3 months.
You need to verify that you had three months when your RT3 was RT3~0

Then reduce T3 and re-introduce T4 again

On a way back you may want to start with

100mcg-T4
50mcg-T3

Then go by blood tests.

-------------------------

This project takes long time to implement.
During that time you will find a lots of distractions.
Try resisting them.
Write your plan down, look at it from time to time,
specially when you see real good reason to make changes that do not fit your plan.
Stay your course, otherwise waste of time.
.................................................. .........

Jan,

I had been on all t3 for about 2 months before, I worked my way up to 75mcg cynomel a day, one day out of the blue my temp averages went from 98.4 to 99.0, and stayed that way...this was on 40mg HC...the temps ave ranged from 98.9 to 98.4 for about two weeks as I lowered T3 b/c i felt hot, racing heart, and pooping all the time. even when i got down to 12.5 my temps were around 99 for some time still...things just got all weird for me on t3.

I'm on t3 only again now, temps are 98.4 avearge.....im taking 12.5 am, 12.5 pm, 6.25 bed. My balance gets weird on t3, my heart palps, and my erections go blah...my sleep is ok, mood is fine.

[theturducken]

Also Jan,

During that t3 only temp spike I had labs done....


total t4 3.9 (4.5-12)
tsh <0.010
Total t3 1.4 (0.6-1.6)
Rt3 16 (11-32)


total t3/rt3 ratio = 9 close to the prefered ratio...but I wasn't feeling optimal

[JanSz]

Jan,

I had been on all t3 for about 2 months before, I worked my way up to 75mcg cynomel a day, one day out of the blue my temp averages went from 98.4 to 99.0, and stayed that way...this was on 40mg HC...the temps ave ranged from 98.9 to 98.4 for about two weeks as I lowered T3 b/c i felt hot, racing heart, and pooping all the time. even when i got down to 12.5 my temps were around 99 for some time still...things just got all weird for me on t3.

I'm on t3 only again now, temps are 98.4 avearge.....im taking 12.5 am, 12.5 pm, 6.25 bed. My balance gets weird on t3, my heart palps, and my erections go blah...my sleep is ok, mood is fine.

Do
Spectracel-5000
that includes all micronutrients and lipids.
Make sure that you get complete (original in color) report.
Check Bryce720 saga of possible difficulties.

do
Fatty Acid Analysis at Genova

Look at both reports
eat what they advice directly
tweak additionally by looking at reports details.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Above will provide you missing supplements.

Then, hopefully, you will be able to continue your project of controlling RT3.

///

[JanSz]

Also Jan,

During that t3 only temp spike I had labs done....


total t4 3.9 (4.5-12)
tsh <0.010
Total t3 1.4 (0.6-1.6)
Rt3 16 (11-32)


total t3/rt3 ratio = 9 close to the prefered ratio...but I wasn't feeling optimal

I go by

RT3(0.12-0.32)nmol/L=(7.8-20.8)ng/dL=(78-208)pg/mL(( Ron Rothenberg, MD 10-16ng/dL) 09:22 show http://progressive.uvault.com/pd1005/UCP091/03Rothenberg/player.HTM

Rt3 16 (11-32)ng/dL you are within this desirable range
-------------------------------

TotalT3 in upper 1/3 range (June09 LEF magazine)

you posted
Total t3 1.4 (0.6-1.6)

Your range look real low
On my last year report from Quest I had

T3(97-219)ng/dL

this year they changed range and posted note about it

T3(76-181)ng/dL

=========================
(219-97)/6*5+97= 199
(181-76)/6*5+76= 164
(1.6-0.6)/6*5+0.6= 1.43 =143 ng/dL
================================

Per your lab you are still missing a little bit on T3

But you may need to aim at 164 or even 199 (that is 1.64 and 1.99 in your units)

.............

[theturducken]

I go by

RT3(0.12-0.32)nmol/L=(7.8-20.8)ng/dL=(78-208)pg/mL(( Ron Rothenberg, MD 10-16ng/dL) 09:22 show http://progressive.uvault.com/pd1005/UCP091/03Rothenberg/player.HTM

Rt3 16 (11-32)ng/dL you are within this desirable range
-------------------------------

TotalT3 in upper 1/3 range (June09 LEF magazine)

you posted
Total t3 1.4 (0.6-1.6)

Your range look real low
On my last year report from Quest I had

T3(97-219)ng/dL

this year they changed range and posted note about it

T3(76-181)ng/dL

=========================
(219-97)/6*5+97= 199
(181-76)/6*5+76= 164
(1.6-0.6)/6*5+0.6= 1.43 =143 ng/dL
================================

Per your lab you are still missing a little bit on T3

But you may need to aim at 164 or even 199 (that is 1.64 and 1.99 in your units)

.............

since those were the t3 only labs, i see what you're saying about bumping the t3 a little from there

i guess spectracell holds the answer to why my tmeps get crazy high even with lowish t3 and subdued rt3

i guess spectracell will also answer why my temps stay low on erfa yet my free t3 is high out of range

[pmgamer18]

I do my temps avg. and feel anyone on Thyroid meds just starting should do this. When I get a high temp avg. of 99 or higher I am hyper when I was trying to find the right dose this happened and I had to back off my Armour dose.
My avg. is 98.4 now I am off all Armour and my temp avg. is 98.6.

[hardasnails1973]

Need to go with Free T3 that is active un bounded form not total t3
You must treat thyroid same as testosterone look for the bioavailable form not the bounded unless form.

[theturducken]

Need to go with Free T3 that is active un bounded form not total t3
You must treat thyroid same as testosterone look for the bioavailable form not the bounded unless form.


Well now, when i had been on erfa 2gr. my ft3 was above range, tt4 below 8, and rt3 above range