ADRENAL FATIGUE PROVED (by 24h urine)

[Dadoo]

My ADRENAL FATIGUE is now proved by labs, like chilln and Dr. J thought it'd be, when I told about my yawning sessions.

My doc has put me on 10mg am + 5mg pm HC. 3rd day now.

Effect: similar to what I have had on my low dose Adex trial for a week. Slow thinking zombie, but it's easier to communicate now and I don't get feel affended by any BS as fast as before. (I think it's due to the suppressed DHEA.)

Now I think this dose is way too low for my needs, look at my total 17-OH Steroids: 4,1 (5,68-16,15).

Is it ok to up the dose or is it too early?

here are the labs again:

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6316/small24hurinlabs1203.th.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/small24hurinlabs1203.jpg/)

[pmgamer18]

I can only speak for myself when I went on HC Cortef I was told to start on it slow 2.5 mgs. Then follow this startind on the full dose all in the same day can make your feel worse.
Day 1-3: 2.5 mg first thing in the AM (2.5 mg total)
Day 4-6: 2.5 mg first thing, 2.5 mg in four hours (5 mg total)
Day 7-9: 2.5 mg first thing; 2.5 mg in four hours; 2.5 mg in four hours (7 1/2 mg total)
Day 10-12: 5 mg first thing; 2.5 mg in four hours; 2.5 mg in four hours (10 mg total)
Day 13-16: 5 mg first thing; 5 mg in four hours; 2.5 mg in four hours; 2.5 mg bedtime (15 mg total)
Day 17-20: 10 mg first thing; 5 mg in four hours; 2.5 mg in four hours; Bedtime 2.5 mg (20 mg total)

[crazycrew]

This could explain why when I started HC a few days ago I jumped in with 10 mg morning and had anxiety feelings. I have reduced my dosage some. Strange thing is I tried Metrol for the first couple of days and that seemed to work great.

[Dadoo]

I can only speak for myself when I went on HC Cortef I was told to start on it slow 2.5 mgs. Then follow this startind on the full dose all in the same day can make your feel worse.
Day 1-3: 2.5 mg first thing in the AM (2.5 mg total)
Day 4-6: 2.5 mg first thing, 2.5 mg in four hours (5 mg total)
Day 7-9: 2.5 mg first thing; 2.5 mg in four hours; 2.5 mg in four hours (7 1/2 mg total)
Day 10-12: 5 mg first thing; 2.5 mg in four hours; 2.5 mg in four hours (10 mg total)
Day 13-16: 5 mg first thing; 5 mg in four hours; 2.5 mg in four hours; 2.5 mg bedtime (15 mg total)
Day 17-20: 10 mg first thing; 5 mg in four hours; 2.5 mg in four hours; Bedtime 2.5 mg (20 mg total)

so you say it's a bad idea to take 10mg all at once? sh...

shall I go down to 5mg am and 2,5mg pm?

ps: I must say I feel well, but still sick, and slowww (my cold is just going away)


...

[pmgamer18]

What ever dose your at don't go back down if your feeling OK just go up slow from where your at.

Modrol is a slow release med.
http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15455

so you say it's a bad idea to take 10mg all at once? sh...

shall I go down to 5mg am and 2,5mg pm?

ps: I must say I feel well, but still sick, and slowww (my cold is just going away)


...

[Dadoo]

Ok, thanks man..

So I just stay on my 10mg morning and 5mg daytime.

And hanks for the medrol info. Hope we have something similar here in Germany.

[Dr. John Crisler]

Ok, thanks man..

So I just stay on my 10mg morning and 5mg daytime.

And hanks for the medrol info. Hope we have something similar here in Germany.
Well, your doctor is directing your care, so he/she is setting the doses.

Sometimes just 10mg first thing in the morning does the trick. I rarely start at less than that because the morning is when the greatest strain is being put on the system.

We time the next dose (IF need be) by looking for a "crash". IF there is a crash later on, take 5mg. IF the crash doesn't clear in 15 or 20 minutes, take another 5mg. Then we know when we need 10mg the next day.

The same would go for a second crash, should one occur.

The necessary doses tend downward as the day goes on.

You should try to avoid HC after dinnertime. But sometimes a dollop (important pharmacy term) of HC helps sleep issues. Maybe 2.5mg only.

[LowT]

Well, your doctor is directing your care, so he/she is setting the doses.

Sometimes just 10mg first thing in the morning does the trick. I rarely start at less than that because the morning is when the greatest strain is being put on the system.

We time the next dose (IF need be) by looking for a "crash". IF there is a crash later on, take 5mg. IF the crash doesn't clear in 15 or 20 minutes, take another 5mg. Then we know when we need 10mg the next day.

The same would go for a second crash, should one occur.

The necessary doses tend downward as the day goes on.

You should try to avoid HC after dinnertime. But sometimes a dollop (important pharmacy term) of HC helps sleep issues. Maybe 2.5mg only.

I found that if I didn't dose at least something (2.5mg+) after dinner then I would wake up middle of the night with my heart pounding out of my chest. It's a good tip that some people need a little extra at night.

[Dadoo]

Well, your doctor is directing your care, so he/she is setting the doses.

Sometimes just 10mg first thing in the morning does the trick. I rarely start at less than that because the morning is when the greatest strain is being put on the system.

We time the next dose (IF need be) by looking for a "crash". IF there is a crash later on, take 5mg. IF the crash doesn't clear in 15 or 20 minutes, take another 5mg. Then we know when we need 10mg the next day.

The same would go for a second crash, should one occur.

The necessary doses tend downward as the day goes on.

You should try to avoid HC after dinnertime. But sometimes a dollop (important pharmacy term) of HC helps sleep issues. Maybe 2.5mg only.

Thanks for all that information, Dr John

You're right my doc should set the doses, before upping it I would have talked to him of course.

So, I will look out for the crashes, whether they occur.

But actually I had only some short moments today and yesterday when I felt energetic. After breakfast and 10mg HC I didn't feel no energy ups. But felt all day good, optimistic and calm as a boa.

[Dadoo]

I found that if I didn't dose at least something (2.5mg+) after dinner then I would wake up middle of the night with my heart pounding out of my chest. It's a good tip that some people need a little extra at night.

ok I'll keep it in mind

[pmgamer18]

There are times I find I need to stress dose what I think Dr. John calls a crash with this is for me is if I over do it working out side or in the gym and don't recover fast. I get shaky and feel weak like I need to lay down and get sick to my stomach some times when this happens. So I will do like Dr. John say adding more until I feel better there was a time I did not feel better after adding up to 20 mgs total and my wife took me to the ER they gave me a big shot of medrol and this fix it. I was later told by my Dr. to up my dose from 20 mgs total a day to 25 mgs starting with 10 mgs in the morning at 5am then 5 mgs at 9am when I ate then 5 mgs at 1pm and 5mgs at 6 pm.

But later that summer it happened again so now I do 10mgs at 5am, 5mgs at 9am, 10 mgs at 1pm and 5 mgs at dinner 6 pm. There are times I wake up in a sweat and my heart in pounding like mad it's my sugar went down to low. So in stead of taking 2.5 mgs at bed time this help I eat some meat of cheese before gong to bed. I don't sleep good taking 2.5 mgs at bedtime but if you can sleep it helps keep your sugar levels up.
Here is a cut and paste from this link.
http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/
====================================
If your cortisol drops too low during the night your blood sugar drops too. Your body compensate by releasing adrenaline as an emergency measure to mobilize more sugar. This has the effect of waking you in an instant. This can be reduced by eating high protein snack before retiring e.g. sardines, nuts of high quality protein shake.

[chilln]

My ADRENAL FATIGUE is now proved by labs, like chilln and Dr. J thought it'd be, when I told about my yawning sessions.

My doc has put me on 10mg am + 5mg pm HC. 3rd day now.

Effect: similar to what I have had on my low dose Adex trial for a week. Slow thinking zombie, but it's easier to communicate now and I don't get feel affended by any BS as fast as before. (I think it's due to the suppressed DHEA.)

Now I think this dose is way too low for my needs, look at my total 17-OH Steroids: 4,1 (5,68-16,15).

Is it ok to up the dose or is it too early?

here are the labs again:

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6316/small24hurinlabs1203.th.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/small24hurinlabs1203.jpg/)


The reason why we gradually build up our HC dosing is because once we dose a little too high, we too often suppress ACTH, which pushes our cortisol even lower than it was before supplementation, for a few hours, and then ACTH and cortisol return to their former levels if you don't continue to take more HC.

If you experience this situation, you will be tempted to take even more HC (cortisol), and this results in a nasty feedback loop and eventually you will be taking so much cortisol that you will have replaced all of the cortisol your adrenals are making, and your ACTH will be effectively zero. At that time you then have to gradually back off your HC in order to exit this nasty feedback loop, because you must never just stop taking a large dose of HC. While you are backing off, you will be very sleepy. This can be a very dangerous situation if you're driving or crossing the road.

The reason why we recommend you work with your medical professional adviser to manage your dosages, is because most people will not get to hear the above info, and they think, incorrectly, that they can just boost cortisol via HC supplementation however they want, without serious repercussions.

Therefore we never recommend that you manage your dosages yourself.

What you can do, is schedule an appointment with your medical professional adviser ASAP (as soon as possible) and explain your symptoms, and that you are prepared to dose up very gradually, and that you would like to be given some freedom to adjust your dosages up or down, within limits, and let your medical professional adviser explain those limits to you (train you).

.

[JanSz]

My doc has put me on 10mg am + 5mg pm HC. 3rd day now.

I think this dose is way too low for my needs, look at my total 17-OH Steroids: 4,1 (5,68-16,15).
----------------------------------------------
It is 6 hours and 12 posts latter.
Any comments on original question?

...

[Dadoo]

The reason why we gradually build up our HC dosing is because once we dose a little too high, we too often suppress ACTH, which pushes our cortisol even lower than it was before supplementation, for a few hours, and then ACTH and cortisol return to their former levels if you don't continue to take more HC.

If you experience this situation, you will be tempted to take even more HC (cortisol), and this results in a nasty feedback loop and eventually you will be taking so much cortisol that you will have replaced all of the cortisol your adrenals are making, and your ACTH will be effectively zero. At that time you then have to gradually back off your HC in order to exit this nasty feedback loop, because you must never just stop taking a large dose of HC. While you are backing off, you will be very sleepy. This can be a very dangerous situation if you're driving or crossing the road.

The reason why we recommend you work with your medical professional adviser to manage your dosages, is because most people will not get to hear the above info, and they think, incorrectly, that they can just boost cortisol via HC supplementation however they want, without serious repercussions.

Therefore we never recommend that you manage your dosages yourself.

What you can do, is schedule an appointment with your medical professional adviser ASAP (as soon as possible) and explain your symptoms, and that you are prepared to dose up very gradually, and that you would like to be given some freedom to adjust your dosages up or down, within limits, and let your medical professional adviser explain those limits to you (train you).

.
Thanks chilln, I will not go all crazy and up my dose. My doc said I should stay on it until next visit in may.

These visits are 120 + 25 (train) = 145 Euro out of my pocket, at least, so I can't just decide to go there to discuss these symptoms.

I hope the suppression will ease a bit next time and I will "survive" until my next visit there, in may, and then we'll discuss these symptoms.

But, chilln, I have another unanswered question, which is not letting me sleep at night =)

And here it is:

Looking at my very last labs, and especially at the 17 Keto Corticosteroids section, what is your non-binding opinion on whether it is worth to begin TRT already now in my situation?

Or would it be better to wait and hope that my new diet + AF treatment will rise my testosterone in good high levels?

...

[LowT]

Thanks chilln, I will not go all crazy and up my dose. My doc said I should stay on it until next visit in may.

These visits are 120 + 25 (train) = 145 Euro out of my pocket, at least, so I can't just decide to go there to discuss these symptoms.

I hope the suppression will ease a bit next time and I will "survive" until my next visit there, in may, and then we'll discuss these symptoms.

But, chilln, I have another unanswered question, which is not letting me sleep at night =)

And here it is:

Looking at my very last labs, and especially at the 17 Keto Corticosteroids section, what is your non-binding opinion on whether it is worth to begin TRT already now in my situation?

Or would it be better to wait and hope that my new diet + AF treatment will rise my testosterone in good high levels?

...

I'm not chilln, but I'll take a crack at your question... :sifone:

It would be best to be on a stable dose of cortisol replacement regardless.

Some people find that HC results in them needing a lower dose of supplemental testosterone.

Some find that HC completely removes the need for supplemental T. (lucky few)

Some (like me) actually see their testosterone levels drop after supporting the adrenals. This is another reason why it's good to fully support the adrenals (DHEA etc.) before looking at T.

Some find that adding in supplemental T actual lowers their need for cortisol replacement. Even if this is your case it's best to have a stable level of cortisol replacement so you can identify this when it happens.

[chilln]

I'm not chilln, but I'll take a crack at your question... :sifone:

It would be best to be on a stable dose of cortisol replacement regardless.

Some people find that HC results in them needing a lower dose of supplemental testosterone.

Some find that HC completely removes the need for supplemental T. (lucky few)

Some (like me) actually see their testosterone levels drop after supporting the adrenals. This is another reason why it's good to fully support the adrenals (DHEA etc.) before looking at T.

Some find that adding in supplemental T actual lowers their need for cortisol replacement. Even if this is your case it's best to have a stable level of cortisol replacement so you can identify this when it happens.

That's certainly a good way to do it (and there's no right way).

Then after boosting cortisol, check all of the other hormone levels to see what recovers.

If thyroid hormones haven't recovered, then try boosting those next, and continue HC supplemtation.

Then after boosting bothy cortisol and thyroid, check all of the other hormone levels to see what else recovers.

If T levels still haven't recovered, then you're going to need to boost T. Since a T boost can recover cortisol and thyroid, therefore you may not need to boost all three. So phase out cortisol and thyroid supps, and phase in T boost supps (T and HCG usually).

If several months of boosting T doesn't restore cortisol and thryoid, then you're going to need all three. Bummer.

.

[Dadoo]

http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/

that reminds me again that I possibly should take out my 5 fillings........

----------------------------------------------
It is 6 hours and 12 posts latter.
Any comments on original question?
well as far as I understand the answer is: up the dose if low. but up it slowly, due to the suppression. but in my case I will have to live with 15mg a day until may.

I'm not chilln, but I'll take a crack at your question... :sifone:

It would be best to be on a stable dose of cortisol replacement regardless.

Some people....tify this when it happens.
thanks, that's good to know, I appreciate!

That's certainly a good way to do it (and there's no right way).

Then after boosting cortisol, check all of the other hormone levels to see what recovers.

If thyroid hormones haven't recovered, then try boosting those next, and continue HC supplemtation.

Then after boosting bothy cortisol and thyroid, check all of the other hormone levels to see what else recovers.

If T levels still haven't recovered, then you're going to need to boost T. Since a T boost can recover cortisol and thyroid, therefore you may not need to boost all three. So phase out cortisol and thyroid supps, and phase in T boost supps (T and HCG usually).

If several months of boosting T doesn't restore cortisol and thryoid, then you're going to need all three. Bummer.

.
Well that is a courageous strategy... Hmm... But the key question is wait and hope that T will come up.

(No, not "come up again" - it never has been up there, and this is what tells me there is no reason to hope for it.)

[cumkwakka]

i would just stick with this dose for a while dadoo

i started on 7.5 mg at once and it was no problem, i then added in 2.5 mg more every say

once i was at 15 i could forget a 5 mg dose and stay at 10 during the day

i think it depends on the crash dr john is talking about, but i would just hang on with it, i felt a little strange on it as well first few days

[Dadoo]

i would just stick with this dose for a while dadoo

i started on 7.5 mg at once and it was no problem, i then added in 2.5 mg more every say

once i was at 15 i could forget a 5 mg dose and stay at 10 during the day

i think it depends on the crash dr john is talking about, but i would just hang on with it, i felt a little strange on it as well first few days

ok, that calms me down a little bit.

But hey, I am calm as a mo**ker already from the HC haha

good to know though

[cumkwakka]

ok, that calms me down a little bit.

But hey, I am calm as a mo**ker already from the HC haha

good to know though

yeah relax man

after three days my blood pressure went from a normal 90/55-60 to 120-80 so it definitely does something in your body and it is a major change let's face it

first two weeks feeling strange, then feeling of some more energy / feeling normal will come about

[Dadoo]

Hi guys

Do I have to take HC always with the meals or right after? Why? What happens if I take it on empty stomech?

[chilln]

Hi guys

Do I have to take HC always with the meals or right after? Why? What happens if I take it on empty stomech?

Initially only take it when you feel tired / brain fade, and initially take one tab / cap and observe it's effectiveness.

Pretty soon you'll see that meals require more cortisol, and your body may not be making enough under stress (like meal times).

.

[Dadoo]

Initially only take it when you feel tired / brain fade, and initially take one tab / cap and observe it's effectiveness.

Pretty soon you'll see that meals require more cortisol, and your body may not be making enough under stress (like meal times).

.

Ok, I see, thanks.

And I think 15 mg a day will be no way enough for a good life, so I won't wait until may but call the doc and ask if I can up the dose by 2,5 when feel crushes, like Dr John said..