Thyriod labs and feedback?

[ok3671]

Hey guys…

Just looking for some feedback on these labs, and maybe what I can expect with my current regimen.


Currently:
100mg test cyp once weekly
HCG 250UI 2x weekly

================================================== ========
Estradiol 8 0-29
Testosterone free, BIO 680 250-1100
Testosterone Free 181.9 46-224
Testosterone Bioavailable 390 110-575
SHBG 13 8-48
Albumin, ser 4.7 3.6 - 5.1
Testosterone, Total LC/MS 737 250-1100


White blood cell count 4.3 3.8 - 10.8
Red blood cell count 5.13 4.20 - 5.80
Hemoglobin 15.8 13.2 - 17.1
Hematocrit 46.7 38.5 - 50.0
MVC 91.1 88 - 100
MCH 30.8 27 - 33
MCHC 33.8 32 - 36
RDW 14 11 - 15
Platelet count 208 140 - 400
Absol Neutbophils 2187 1500 - 7800
Absol Lymophocytes 1681 850 -3900
Absol Monocytes 314 200 - 950
Absol Esoinophils 86 15 - 500
Absol Basophils 22 0 - 200
Neutrophilis 51.1 %
Lymphocytes 39.1 %
Monocytes 7.3 %
Eosimophiles 2.0 %
Basophiles 0.5 %

TSH, 3rd Gen 2.36 0.40 - 4.50
T4, Free 1.3 0.8 - 1.8
T3, Free 404 230 – 420
T3, Rev 37 11-32
================================================== ========

With these labs, I am currently very, fatigued, tired, worn out, lethargic, and just overall don’t feel good. However, no ED issues, and I do seem nice and strong in the gym, just difficulty having any energy or motivation getting through a workout. I do occasionally have a pretty good day…good mood and decent energy. The downside about a good day, is I know it’s soon followed by a down period.

After doc reviewed labs, I have started 5mcg of Cytomel 2x a day…once in the a.m. and again about 7-8 hrs later. Working up 5mcg every 3 days, up to 15mcg 2x daily. Also started 10mg HC once daily.

So far, I am up to 5mcg in the a.m. and 10mcg later in the day.

No change in anything really. If I had to pick anything…I would say worse, but only slightly.

I am looking for feedback on these labs, my current regime. Mostly, I am curious about the cytomel. I’m still on the bottom slope of the learning curve on the thyroid stuff. I am curious as to how I should feel with this dose, what to expect, and how long before things may improve?

Thanks guys!

[ok3671]

ops. left off rev T3 on the first post some how.

it's added now.

[JanSz]

Hey guys…

Just looking for some feedback on these labs, and maybe what I can expect with my current regimen.


Currently:
100mg test cyp once weekly
HCG 250UI 2x weekly

================================================== ========
Estradiol 8 0-29
Testosterone free, BIO 680 250-1100
Testosterone Free 181.9 46-224
Testosterone Bioavailable 390 110-575
SHBG 13 8-48
Albumin, ser 4.7 3.6 - 5.1
Testosterone, Total LC/MS 737 250-1100


White blood cell count 4.3 3.8 - 10.8
Red blood cell count 5.13 4.20 - 5.80
Hemoglobin 15.8 13.2 - 17.1
Hematocrit 46.7 38.5 - 50.0
MVC 91.1 88 - 100
MCH 30.8 27 - 33
MCHC 33.8 32 - 36
RDW 14 11 - 15
Platelet count 208 140 - 400
Absol Neutbophils 2187 1500 - 7800
Absol Lymophocytes 1681 850 -3900
Absol Monocytes 314 200 - 950
Absol Esoinophils 86 15 - 500
Absol Basophils 22 0 - 200
Neutrophilis 51.1 %
Lymphocytes 39.1 %
Monocytes 7.3 %
Eosimophiles 2.0 %
Basophiles 0.5 %

TSH, 3rd Gen 2.36 0.40 - 4.50
T4, Free 1.3 0.8 - 1.8
T3, Free 404 230 – 420
T3, Rev 37 11-32
================================================== ========

With these labs, I am currently very, fatigued, tired, worn out, lethargic, and just overall don’t feel good. However, no ED issues, and I do seem nice and strong in the gym, just difficulty having any energy or motivation getting through a workout. I do occasionally have a pretty good day…good mood and decent energy. The downside about a good day, is I know it’s soon followed by a down period.

After doc reviewed labs, I have started 5mcg of Cytomel 2x a day…once in the a.m. and again about 7-8 hrs later. Working up 5mcg every 3 days, up to 15mcg 2x daily. Also started 10mg HC once daily.

So far, I am up to 5mcg in the a.m. and 10mcg later in the day.

No change in anything really. If I had to pick anything…I would say worse, but only slightly.

I am looking for feedback on these labs, my current regime. Mostly, I am curious about the cytomel. I’m still on the bottom slope of the learning curve on the thyroid stuff. I am curious as to how I should feel with this dose, what to expect, and how long before things may improve?

Thanks guys!

TSH, 3rd Gen 2.36 0.40 - 4.50
T4, Free 1.3 0.8 - 1.8
T3, Free 404 230 – 420 do not worry even if you get it up to 500 while on T3
T3, Rev 37 11-32
==================================================

With this labs think

Cytomel-T3-75mcg/day
Cortef-30mg/day
2dropperful/week Lugol's solution

You could do much better if you did

adrenal study

Spectracel-5000
Fatty Acids Analysis
-----------

Spectracell and Fatty Acids Analysis would allow optimal adrenal/thyroid and overall support.

Adrenal study will tell you if you need that Cortef support or possibly you need additional Florinef.
Because right now you are going just by how you feel, little to none instrument flying.


..

[ok3671]

Thanks for the feedback!


Could I get some more information on what you mean by an adrenal study?

would this be simular to 24hr saliva, analysis?
-I did do one of these about 8 weeks ago.
-I was above range first thing in the am by .1
-I was above range in the evening by .1

Serum Cortisol showed normal.


As far as your suggestion on Lugol's solution, are you suggesting that on top of my HC, and Cytomel?


And I'll search and read up on the spectracel and fatty acids analysis. Is this something my doc would have
to order, or can I do these myself?

Also...the doc wanted me to try out the cytomel for 3 weeks, and then we meet again.


thanks!!

[JanSz]

Thanks for the feedback!


Could I get some more information on what you mean by an adrenal study?

would this be simular to 24hr saliva, analysis?
-I did do one of these about 8 weeks ago.
-I was above range first thing in the am by .1
-I was above range in the evening by .1

Serum Cortisol showed normal.

24hr urine cortisol would help

As far as your suggestion on Lugol's solution, are you suggesting that on top of my HC, and Cytomel? Yes.


And I'll search and read up on the spectracel and fatty acids analysis. Is this something my doc would have
to order, or can I do these myself?

Also...the doc wanted me to try out the cytomel for 3 weeks, and then we meet again. Be very careful dropping T3 abruptly.


thanks!!

Spectracell ordered by you cost little over $300
when ordered by doc and paid by insurance, out of pocket about $60

Fatty Acids only by doc, usually osteopath. Lab will give you list of docs in your area who have account with them.

----
You have very low SHBG=13
I suggest that you use EOD schedule.

T-shot=15units=30mg=105mg/week average
HCG-shot=250iu

////////////////

[ok3671]

Thanks for the info on the labs. I'll bring these up with the doc next visit.

I don't think I'll be stopping the T3 suddenly, if anything I would he would probably up it. We just agreed to ease into it for 3 weeks, and then discuss.

I have 24hr cortisol labs as well...

Cortisone (5-pt) 168 92-366 UG/24hrs


However, this was taken about the first of Nov, and was before starting T-IM and HCG.

Interesting info on the EOD schedule...I wonder what my doc will say about that when I ask...?

Curious, my SHBG has always been low. How would the EOD schedule help this? and what are the postives of having this raised? It's been confusing to me, as it seems I read sometimes that lower is better, than higher....?

And with your EOD schedule, are you suggesting Test one day, and HCG the other?

Thanks again!

[JanSz]

Thanks for the info on the labs. I'll bring these up with the doc next visit.

I don't think I'll be stopping the T3 suddenly, if anything I would he would probably up it. We just agreed to ease into it for 3 weeks, and then discuss.

I have 24hr cortisol labs as well...

Cortisone (5-pt) 168 92-366 UG/24hrs


However, this was taken about the first of Nov, and was before starting T-IM and HCG.

Interesting info on the EOD schedule...I wonder what my doc will say about that when I ask...?

Curious, my SHBG has always been low. How would the EOD schedule help this? and what are the postives of having this raised? It's been confusing to me, as it seems I read sometimes that lower is better, than higher....?

And with your EOD schedule, are you suggesting Test one day, and HCG the other?

Thanks again!

For convenience, (T & HCG) one day next day free.

Good range for SHBG(15-20) (my own opinion).
you have 13

With this low SHBG, you will be dumping T shortly after injecting,
there will be a little left 7 days latter.

If you divide into smaller more frequent doses you should do much better, EOD.

-----
I have 24hr cortisol labs as well...
Cortisone (5-pt) 168 92-366 UG/24hrs

=(168-92)/(366-92)=0.28

I would prefer it to be in the area of 0.75

I think you are rather low.
Check cortisol saliva 4points, support as required with Cortef.

If support is requred, go for 30mcg-Cortef, no sense in starting small.
30mg or actually 40mg/day is a safe long term dose.

You do not need doubts when eating Cytomel-T3.


------

[ok3671]

thank you for replying to my thread and supplying such a vast amount of info.

I am still coming up to speed on this whole thyriod thing, so thanks for bearing with me!

So you mentioned....

============================
If support is requred, go for 30mcg-Cortef, no sense in starting small.
30mg or actually 40mg/day is a safe long term dose.
You do not need doubts when eating Cytomel-T3.

I think you are rather low.
Check cortisol saliva 4points, support as required with Cortef.

============================

I don't have Cortef, I have Hydrocortisol, in 10mg tabs. Is this different, the same? You mention going for 30mcg, but state that there is no sense in starting small, and suggest going with 30-40mg. Confused on this one...
As far as the comments on the saliva 4points, and supplying cortef as required, are you suggesting that I take the cortef during the times I am low...or can I just take the suggested amount once in the a.m.?

Also curious, what you mean by "when eating cytomel, you need no doubts"...?

My doc has me a bit aprehensive on this stuff...he just told me to becareful when taking the HC, and Cytomel...but didn't really leave me with any suggestions. I am just taking 10mg of HC in the a.m. I've been nervious to alter this

[ok3671]

just bumping up for some feedback.

thanks!

[JanSz]

thank you for replying to my thread and supplying such a vast amount of info.

I am still coming up to speed on this whole thyriod thing, so thanks for bearing with me!

So you mentioned....

============================
If support is requred, go for 30mcg-Cortef, no sense in starting small.
30mg or actually 40mg/day is a safe long term dose.
You do not need doubts when eating Cytomel-T3.

I think you are rather low.
Check cortisol saliva 4points, support as required with Cortef.

============================

I don't have Cortef, I have Hydrocortisol, in 10mg tabs. Is this different, the same? You mention going for 30mcg, but state that there is no sense in starting small, and suggest going with 30-40mg. Confused on this one...
As far as the comments on the saliva 4points, and supplying cortef as required, are you suggesting that I take the cortef during the times I am low...or can I just take the suggested amount once in the a.m.?

Also curious, what you mean by "when eating cytomel, you need no doubts"...?

My doc has me a bit aprehensive on this stuff...he just told me to becareful when taking the HC, and Cytomel...but didn't really leave me with any suggestions. I am just taking 10mg of HC in the a.m. I've been nervious to alter this

Cortef=Hydrocortisone
-----------------------------------

You need well supported adrenals before you can accept proper size doses of T3.
-----------------------------------
Cortef=Hydrocortisone is short acting.
Most people are able to be comfortable when doses are 4hr apart

30mg/day of Cortef=Hydrocortisone
10mg/wakeup+10mg/4hrs latter+5mg/4hrs latter+5mg/4hrs latter
At first, use above schedule, usually works better than any attempts at fine tunning or using saliva test results to gage doses.

If that is not comfortable and you are running out of cortisol before 4 hrs is up
you may want to experiment with 3.5 or 3hrs spacing

when it gets to complicated
use Medrol
make sure that you DO NOT use prenisone or prednisolone (bad side effects are too common)

30mg-Cortef=30mg-Hydrocortisone=6mg-Medrol

I was not able to be comfortable on 30mg-Cortef
But now using Medrol, most of days I use only 4mg

........

[chilln]

I have 24hr cortisol labs as well...

Cortisol (5-pt) 168 92-366 UG/24hrs

However, this was taken about the first of Nov, and was before starting T-IM and HCG.


The adrenals make predominantly DHEA and glucocorticoids (eg: cortisol), and they make a small contribution to our male sex hormone levels.

DHEA is mostly used as a precursor hormone, although we do have a few DHEA-specific receptors, and cortisol is our most important-to-monitor corticosteriod, since it has many many critical effects, yet cortisol sometimes tanks as we age (due to many factors).

Your urinary cortisol result suggests you're limited on cortisol. Ie: if you didn't get too energetic, then you'd do just fine, but once your mental and physical stressors start to rise, then you may wind up being cortisol limited.

Eg: if your salivary cortisol was sampled on a relaxed day, or after a night of excellent sleep, then that might explain why your cortisol was average in the morning and at night (I'm assuming 0.1 above average is barely above average).

Eg: if you did your urinary cortisol on a more stressed day, or after a night of poor quality sleep, then that might explain why it is relatively low.

Next time when you and your medical professional adviser consider another salivary cortisol or urinary cortisol test, please take into account your stress levels.

I recommend you do these tests on your most stressed day(s), not your least stressed days.

###

I believe your existing urinary cortisol result, is already indicative of your lethargy.

With relatively lower cortisol levels, boosting thyroid hormone T3 can have one of two effects - depending on your genetics, ie:

a) Boosting thyroid hormone T3 can make you more drowsy, if your adrenals can't produce more cortisol, to match the increase in thyroid hormone T3.

This is because thyroid hormone T3 requires cortisol to transport it into cells. If you boost thyroid hormones T3 when your adrenals can't produce more cortisol, then the excess thyroid hormone T3 will convert into reverse T3.

b) Boosting thyroid hormone T3 can actually improve your overall health and erengy levels, because if your adrenals are only sluggish due to limited thyroid hormone T3, then boosting thyroid hormone T3 can increase all forms of metabolism, including the adrenal gland's rate of production of cortisol.

###

You never know which way your body will behave from the outset, because what decides the outcome are our genetic setpoints which dictate our adrenal cortisol production rate. And unfortunately, those genetic limits are reduced with advancing age.

When our genetics limits our cortisol production rate to be too low, boosting our thyroid hormone T3 won't increase it, and we have to supplement with cortisol - usually for life.

If boosting thyroid hormone T3 only converts more thyroid hormone T3 into reverse T3 (as we see in your case) then discuss with your medical professional adviser to back off some of your thyroid hormone T3 supps, and try boosting cortisol (by supplementing with some cortisol - as hydrocortisone, or as cortef - both manmade bioidentical cortisol), to improve the efficiency of the thyroid hormone T3 already present, as well as to improve on all of the other factors cortisol is required for.

Of course you can dose cortisol too highly. So you do need a good baseline of cortisol testing, and for that I suggest discussing with your medical professional adviser to obtain a 4-times-per-day salivary cortisol reading on your most stressed day.

2-point cortisol readings aren't adequate. Cortisol normally starts out high, and ends low by the end of the day, and should never dip too suddenly in-between.




Curious, my SHBG has always been low.


Usually that's due to inadequate thyroid hormone T3, or due to insulin resistance (eg: too many high GI carbs)



How would the EOD schedule help this? and what are the postives of having this raised? It's been confusing to me, as it seems I read sometimes that lower is better, than higher....?


Low SHBG means the liver will metabolize your T into urinary metabolites much faster than it would if your SHBG were higher. This is because your T will exist as a high percentage of free T, and the liver only metabolizes free T into urinary metabolites.

Injecting lower doses of T, more frequently, will counter some of the effects of your T being metabolized much faster, by keeping T levels topped up more frequently.

.

[ok3671]

The adrenals make predominantly DHEA and glucocorticoids (eg: cortisol), and they make a small contribution to our male sex hormone levels.

DHEA is mostly used as a precursor hormone, although we do have a few DHEA-specific receptors, and cortisol is our most important-to-monitor corticosteriod, since it has many many critical effects, yet cortisol sometimes tanks as we age (due to many factors).


My DHEA is always rock bottom. Has been for a few years. We've tried supplimenting DHEA, only to feel horrible a few hours later. Any chance taking the HC will give my adrenals a break, and they will start producing more DHEA?


Your urinary cortisol result suggests you're limited on cortisol. Ie: if you didn't get too energetic, then you'd do just fine, but once your mental and physical stressors start to rise, then you may wind up being cortisol limited.

Eg: if your salivary cortisol was sampled on a relaxed day, or after a night of excellent sleep, then that might explain why your cortisol was average in the morning and at night (I'm assuming 0.1 above average is barely above average).

Eg: if you did your urinary cortisol on a more stressed day, or after a night of poor quality sleep, then that might explain why it is relatively low.


I'm a pretty energetic person, I like to stay active and try and workout at least 3-4 days a week. There have been a few weeks I've been so tired I just couldn't get to the gym.

Now that you mention it, the more stressed or less stressed defently affects how I feel and sleep. I did feel pretty darn good for about a week right after the Christmas holiday, as I took about a week off, and was pretty stress free. This good feeling lasted about a week.

I then tried out 5-Http and didn't have a good experiece, and had a horrible nights sleep, along with the stress from work picking back up. That was almost two weeks ago, and I feel I am just now catching back up to feeling decent. The past two weeks have been rough



I believe your existing urinary cortisol result, is already indicative of your lethargy.

With relatively lower cortisol levels, boosting thyroid hormone T3 can have one of two effects - depending on your genetics, ie:

a) Boosting thyroid hormone T3 can make you more drowsy, if your adrenals can't produce more cortisol, to match the increase in thyroid hormone T3.

This is because thyroid hormone T3 requires cortisol to transport it into cells. If you boost thyroid hormones T3 when your adrenals can't produce more cortisol, then the excess thyroid hormone T3 will convert into reverse T3.

b) Boosting thyroid hormone T3 can actually improve your overall health and erengy levels, because if your adrenals are only sluggish due to limited thyroid hormone T3, then boosting thyroid hormone T3 can increase all forms of metabolism, including the adrenal gland's rate of production of cortisol.


OK, good info. On day one of Cytomel, I didn't take the HC and felt really tired. Starting day 2 I started the 10mg of HC in the a.m. and felt my normal worn out feeling. Since then, I have worked up to 15mcg of Cytomel in the a.m. and 10mcg in the p.m. Tomorrow will be the first day of 15mcg a.m. and p.m. for a total of 30mcg. I am currently on 10mg of HC, and haven't messed with that dose too much...other than like today, I took a second 10mg at noon. I meet with my Dr. this week, and I wanted to get his OK before adjusting anything. Honestly, I really don't feel any different since starting the cytomel and HC. Maybe the doc will want to up the doses this week. I'm still really tired, worn out, and all of that good stuff.

I also have a slight stuttering issue, and it's defently worse when stressed. I am hoping that once we get these thyriod levels worked out, this stuttering thing will be reduced! I've noticed that on days I really feel good...I don't have this stuttering issue.




You never know which way your body will behave from the outset, because what decides the outcome are our genetic setpoints which dictate our adrenal cortisol production rate. And unfortunately, those genetic limits are reduced with advancing age.

When our genetics limits our cortisol production rate to be too low, boosting our thyroid hormone T3 won't increase it, and we have to supplement with cortisol - usually for life.

If boosting thyroid hormone T3 only converts more thyroid hormone T3 into reverse T3 (as we see in your case) then discuss with your medical professional adviser to back off some of your thyroid hormone T3 supps, and try boosting cortisol (by supplementing with some cortisol - as hydrocortisone, or as cortef - both manmade bioidentical cortisol), to improve the efficiency of the thyroid hormone T3 already present, as well as to improve on all of the other factors cortisol is required for.



OK, a little confused here. How do we know that boosting thyriod hormone T3 has converted to more reverse T3, for me? We haven't tested again since starting the Cytomel. Dr. put me on Cytomel because of high reverse T3.

I'm asking this because I concerned that maybe I've got you off track somewhere with my line of events and scheduling.



Of course you can dose cortisol too highly. So you do need a good baseline of cortisol testing, and for that I suggest discussing with your medical professional adviser to obtain a 4-times-per-day salivary cortisol reading on your most stressed day.

2-point cortisol readings aren't adequate. Cortisol normally starts out high, and ends low by the end of the day, and should never dip too suddenly in-between.


Ok, thanks. I'll see about doing this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by brownb01
Curious, my SHBG has always been low.

Usually that's due to inadequate thyroid hormone T3, or due to insulin resistance (eg: too many high GI carbs)


OK, this brings up a good point. Insulin resistance. How does one measure this? I have monitored by glucose, since it flagged high on a recent heatlh check. My 13 hour fasting glucose is usally around 90, and after eating it gets up to around 140. It's never been over 145, and never below 90.




Low SHBG means the liver will metabolize your T into urinary metabolites much faster than it would if your SHBG were higher. This is because your T will exist as a high percentage of free T, and the liver only metabolizes free T into urinary metabolites.

Injecting lower doses of T, more frequently, will counter some of the effects of your T being metabolized much faster, by keeping T levels topped up more frequently.


OK, good info and makes sense to me. I may just try this...I'll bounce it off the doc this week and see what he thinks.


Ok, guys...thanks so much for all the feedback. This is really helping!

[chilln]

My DHEA is always rock bottom. Has been for a few years. We've tried supplimenting DHEA, only to feel horrible a few hours later. Any chance taking the HC will give my adrenals a break, and they will start producing more DHEA?


That's because our pituitary produces ACTH to signal the production of both DHEA and cortisol. For some with low DHEA and low cortisol, boosting DHEA feeds back on the pituitary, so ACTH goes lower to reduce the adrenal production of DHEA.

But reducing ACTH will also reduce cortisol production, which in your case is already too low, so the overall effect is worse than before.




I then tried out 5-HTP and didn't have a good experience, and had a horrible nights sleep, along with the stress from work picking back up. That was almost two weeks ago, and I feel I am just now catching back up to feeling decent. The past two weeks have been rough


With 5-HTP, dosage is critical, because some of it converts to seratonin, while the remainder will convert to melatonin.

If too much converts to seratonin, your sleep will be lighter, not deeper, and that's probably what happened to you.

For a few of us, the majority of 5-HTP will convert to seratonin, even at small doses.




OK, a little confused here. How do we know that boosting thyriod hormone T3 has converted to more reverse T3, for me? We haven't tested again since starting the Cytomel. Dr. put me on Cytomel because of high reverse T3.

I'm asking this because I concerned that maybe I've got you off track somewhere with my line of events and scheduling.


My bad. Sorry.

I stated: "If you boost thyroid hormones T3 when your adrenals can't produce more cortisol, then the excess thyroid hormone T3 will convert into reverse T3."

...but I meant: "If you boost thyroid hormones T3 when your adrenals can't produce more cortisol, then more of your thyroid hormone T4 will convert into reverse T3, negating many of the effects of boost to thyroid hormone T3."





OK, this brings up a good point. Insulin resistance. How does one measure this? I have monitored by glucose, since it flagged high on a recent heatlh check. My 13 hour fasting glucose is usally around 90, and after eating it gets up to around 140. It's never been over 145, and never below 90.


Looks like you've shown that the health check test may have been a once-off.

We monitor insulin resistance by how quickly our insulin and glucose levels drop off after meals. If we're monitoring this ourselves, we monitor glucose only, as insulin home-monitoring is still a long way off.

.

[ok3671]

Looks like you've shown that the health check test may have been a once-off.

We monitor insulin resistance by how quickly our insulin and glucose levels drop off after meals. If we're monitoring this ourselves, we monitor glucose only, as insulin home-monitoring is still a long way off.



Thanks!

For clarification:
On the health check, my 12 hr fasting came back at 105. It flagged as a convern because is was over 100.

My 12 hr fasting glocose is usually 90-100

I meet with my doc tomorrow, so I will provide an update.

[ok3671]

Hey guys…

Just wondering if I could get some feedback. I am getting a lot of anxiety in the evenings.

I am feeling alive and alert though the day now, since starting the cytomel and hydrocortisone, just this anxiety is really getting to me!

Daily:
30mcg of cytomel daily, and 30mg of hydrocortisone.

HRT:
Day 1 - 250hcg
Day2 – 50mg T
Day3 – off

[ok3671]

Ok, after a long night of crappy sleep, this seems more like issues I have experienced before....E2. Morning wood, and libido have disappeared over the past 3 weeks. Also, a few weeks ago, the doc had me switch up when I do my T and HCG shots. I am very low SBHG, and he said more frequent shots would benefit me.

I was doing T and HCG weekly, and we switched it to every 3 days, doing a T shot, with the HCG the day before. As you can see from my labs reported previously in this tread, by E2 was in check when doing weekly shots. One would think that doing T more frequently would keep E2 in even better check, since the swings are not so great.


Also about this time, I stopped taking ZMA in the evenings. I read here that someone thought excess zinc maybe causing brain fog, so I thought I'd take a couple of weeks off, and see if that got better. Maybe the ZMA was helping control E2's?

Anyways...just curious what the most likely culpruit of my issues would be!

thanks!

[JanSz]

Ok, after a long night of crappy sleep, this seems more like issues I have experienced before....E2. Morning wood, and libido have disappeared over the past 3 weeks. Also, a few weeks ago, the doc had me switch up when I do my T and HCG shots. I am very low SBHG, and he said more frequent shots would benefit me.

I was doing T and HCG weekly, and we switched it to every 3 days, doing a T shot, with the HCG the day before. As you can see from my labs reported previously in this tread, by E2 was in check when doing weekly shots. One would think that doing T more frequently would keep E2 in even better check, since the swings are not so great.


Also about this time, I stopped taking ZMA in the evenings. I read here that someone thought excess zinc maybe causing brain fog, so I thought I'd take a couple of weeks off, and see if that got better. Maybe the ZMA was helping control E2's?

Anyways...just curious what the most likely culpruit of my issues would be!

thanks!

Zinc/copper other interactions are hard to guess.

Do Spectracel-5000

you will cover good portion of important micronutrients an also lipids.

With insurance ($62)

..........

Biotin
Folate
Pantothenate
Vitamin A
Vitamin B1
Vitamin B2
Vitamin B3
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B12
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
Vitamin K
Calcium
Copper
Magnesium
Zinc

Asparagine
Glutamine
Serine
Alpha Lipoic Acid
Coenzyme Q10
Cysteine
Glutathione
Selenium
Vitamin E
Spectrox™ (Total Antioxidant Function)
Carnitine
Choline
Chromium
Fructose Sensitivity
Glucose/Insulin Metabolism
Inositol
Oleic Acid
-----------------------
SpectraCell’s LPP™ test is the most advanced lipoprotein test currently available.

.........

[chilln]

From:



After doc reviewed labs, I have started 5mcg of Cytomel 2x a day…once in the a.m. and again about 7-8 hrs later. Working up 5mcg every 3 days, up to 15mcg 2x daily. Also started 10mg HC once daily.



...to:



Hey guys…
Daily:
30mcg of cytomel daily, and 30mg of hydrocortisone.



...which is good because your medical professional adviser is taking it slow and steady.

But your therapeutic trial with HC and cytomel hasn't ended yet. You and your medical professional adviser should continue gradually increasing until you confirm there's a worsening of symptoms.

I suspect you're still experiencing anxiety is because you're still in need of either:
a) more HC (most likely)
or
b) DHEA (less likely, but don't discount this)

Previously DHEA would cause you issues because your DHEA would further reduce your cortisol levels (by lowering ACTH).

But now that your cortisol levels are closer to optimum, boosting DHEA should not have such an effect.

In any case, I suspect your optimum daily dosage of cortisol is higher than 30mg.

.

[ok3671]

From:




...to:





...which is good because your medical professional adviser is taking it slow and steady.

But your therapeutic trial with HC and cytomel hasn't ended yet. You and your medical professional adviser should continue gradually increasing until you confirm there's a worsening of symptoms.

I suspect you're still experiencing anxiety is because you're still in need of either:
a) more HC (most likely)
or
b) DHEA (less likely, but don't discount this)

Previously DHEA would cause you issues because your DHEA would further reduce your cortisol levels (by lowering ACTH).

But now that your cortisol levels are closer to optimum, boosting DHEA should not have such an effect.

In any case, I suspect your optimum daily dosage of cortisol is higher than 30mg.

.


thanks for the input.

A few things...the anxiety in the evenings is a new thing. I would get anxiety before, for normal things...public speaking, or whatever. Now, every evening I am getting anxiety for no reason. Seems to kick in every evening around 7-8.

As DHEA...I've always been rock bottom on labs, and supplementing it has always resorted in feeling horrible. We've discussed this earlier in this thread, and you pointed out...that DHEA could make be feel worse because of low cortisol. What are your thoughts on supplementing DHEA, now that my cortisol levels have been increased? any value?

Also, input on the now lack of libdo and zero MW would be apprieacted. It seems since switching to twice weekly T shots...I've lost both of these. It really seems like E2 issues, I am just confused on what would have caused it. I thought more frequent T shots would have contributed to a lower E level. I really miss my morning wake me up!

[chilln]

thanks for the input.
A few things...the anxiety in the evenings is a new thing. I would get anxiety before, for normal things...public speaking, or whatever. Now, every evening I am getting anxiety for no reason. Seems to kick in every evening around 7-8.


Looks like you still need a cortisol boost around 7-8. Discuss with your medical professional adviser when to take another dose to achieve this.




As DHEA...I've always been rock bottom on labs, and supplementing it has always resorted in feeling horrible. We've discussed this earlier in this thread, and you pointed out...that DHEA could make be feel worse because of low cortisol. What are your thoughts on supplementing DHEA, now that my cortisol levels have been increased? any value?


Definitely discuss with your medical professional adviser to trial a DHEA boost, but only after you nail the low cortisol around 7-8.




Also, input on the now lack of libdo and zero MW would be apprieacted. It seems since switching to twice weekly T shots...I've lost both of these. It really seems like E2 issues, I am just confused on what would have caused it. I thought more frequent T shots would have contributed to a lower E level. I really miss my morning wake me up!


What causes it dead simple. When you boost your cortisol, the cortisol triggers a reduction in the genetic setpoint for optimum bioavailable T. Boosting cortisol favors energy metabolism (glucose + thyroid) over repairs (testosterone).

Since your cortisol levels have risen, your bioavailable T levels have dropped on the same supply of T and HCG, and some bodies prefer to dump bioavailable T by converting more free T into E2 and DHT. Other people's bodies metabolize their T faster, in the liver, and their E2 levels reduce (to be too low).

When we boost our cortisol, we typically need to boost our T dosages (as T and / or HCG) to maintain more optimum bioavailable T levels.

You and your medical professional adviser should monitor which route your body has taken, and if your body is steering towards dumping more T into E2, then you and your medical professional adviser may need to suppress the conversion of that additional T into E2, via arimidex, but this is not a given - initially monitor it via labs.

If you do discover that after boosting your cortisol, that more of your T is converting into E2, then consider boosting T less, and boosting GH (which also requires the higher cortisol levels).

This is beneficial because both GH and T trigger repairs, with a lot of overlap, but not 100% overlap (hence we need both T and GH).

Boosting GH and reducing T can result in a big reduction in E2, resulting in a more optimum balance between T and E2, restoring erection performance.

.

[ok3671]

OK, thanks for the feedback.

I see the correlation to cortsol. It just seemed to me that the ED was timed more with the switching to 2x weekly shots, than the supplemented cortisol..but they were very close in timing.

I'll get something scheduled with the doc.

Thanks!